Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: tonyatl on February 24, 2009, 03:45:37 AM
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i recently purchased a piece of glass which i thought was modern waterford.....however after addtional inspection and research i am no longer convinced....the reason i thought it was waterford is because it was sold along with a potload of other waterford and i thought birds of a feather flock together. i am interested in other opinions about the glass.
clearly it shares some american brilliant cut glass motifs along with typical irish cuts. but there are some odd things about it for it to be recent production. 1. it is cut all over - no blank space as is commonly found on modern waterford which is quite sparsely cut typically. 2. the base is hollow. i.e. it is domed and faceted without a flat bottom like antique abc glass. 3. the piece is prismatic but not spontaneously so and it is relatively light for its size when compared to abc glass yet still weighty. however it is NOT pressed glass. 4. the cuts are like waterford in that they are not sharp - they are soft and muted....abc glass on the other hand is usually crisp if not sharpish....nevertheless the miter cuts are deep on the upper section unlike with what i am familar with irish glass....the bulbous section has the shallow cuts....5. i am convinced that it is not molded 6. there is an occasional small uncontrolled bubble 7. there do not appear to be diamond striations on the miter cuts. 8. the sawtooth rim is beveled and polished although cutting marks were left behind if viewed with a loop....
so with that information and the pictures, perhaps some would be inclined to share thoughts on origin and age. i can't fit it into any category with which i am familar.
regardless of its age or origin it is truly magnificent. it stands 14" and is tentatively identified as an irish cut glass vase. better images could be provided if requested.
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Can you try taking pictures on a black background please. Have you considered Bohemian Crystal? I know little about cut glass but some labelled Bohemian Crystal I have seen is cut all over and with similar motifs.
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here are some different pictures with black background.
bohemian glass may be a possibility and something which i will research further....on the other hand bohemian clear cut glass is usually not this deeply cut nor with these ambitious motifs - it has a different personality....but i am sure that exceptions abound.
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I'm wondering if it's one of the Scottish makers with that thistle-like shape?
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after further study, i have determined that the vase was indeed molded in 3 parts....but it is leaded....
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Yep. Theres probably more pressed (molded) (lead) crystal in the world than there is cut.
How did you determine this ? Mold lines ?
Looks very crisp.
If you are in USA / Canada then this probably comes under EAPG.
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the piece was cleverly constructed....when i first studied the vase i thought i saw seams which i then dismissed as cut marks because they did not extend the entire length of the vase....however, after i pulled my head out of crevice i realised that the bowl (vase) was attached to a base which may have been blown or created without press molds.....so the furtive seams indeed finally gave away the 3 part mold....
however i doubt that this is eapg.....my understanding is the eapg is either unleaded or at best flint glass.....this vase is leaded....so i think it is of recent manufacture.....however, it is very well done and very attractive....
some parts may be cut as there is a crsipness not associated with pressed glass but i am thinking that is because leaded glass was used as opposed to potash based glass....
so mystery is solved enough that i don't have to worry about having a valuable piece of glass.
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Isn't a fair amount of glass pressed before cutting? You said you could see some cutting marks
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there is pure cut glass which is almost invariably hand blown if it is from the american brilliant cut glass era (c . 1876 - 1914) and it was never pressed (except see below)...this applies to english and continental glass of the same era.....then there was pressed glass which was unleaded and was never cut because typically lead content is required in order have the glass structure necessary for supporting cuts....
however to every rule is an exception.....toward the end of the abc glass era figured blanks were used by some companies to save money meaning that they had patterns made during blowing or were indeed truly pressed and then were cut subsequently with embellishments but this represented inferior production.
recent crystal production has resorted to 3 part mold based glass construction which is much cheaper than blown cut glass....by using leaded glass they can make a much more realistic imitation of abc glass which the early nucut pressed glass attempted to achieve but unconvincingly so.....
now it should be borne in mind that early pattern glass was 3 part mold and then later 2 part molds were used....however just because glass is 3 part molded does not make it old....but it can imply a nicer piece if newer glass as someone is using more labor than necessary to create....i think this vase is such an example but i am open to other suggestions about age.
now i believe that some aspects of my vase were cut but only in an incidental way....i believe that what i thought were cut marks may have been polishing of mold break marks....my troubles all started with the fundamental flaw of dismissing the seams as not seams....i went down hill from there.....once i readmitted the seams everything fell into place.