Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: px on July 10, 2010, 12:29:15 PM
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This has happened before: I find something and buy it because I know it is from Sklo Union at quite nice. And since I couldn't look very enthusiastic or excited in front of the seller anyway in order to keep the price down I feel quite neutral. ;D
Then I get home and wash the object and look at it closer and Wow it's beautiful!! And after I've searched and found more information of it I am even more happy! :hiclp:
This time I found this jardiniere (by the way I do not know what a "jardiniere" actually is or is it just meant for the beauty in itself? - it is not very handy for flower arrangements, nor for candy? - and the word is one of the things I've learned from GMB :) )
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/th_IMG_0382.jpg) (http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/IMG_0382.jpg)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/th_IMG_0383.jpg) (http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/IMG_0383.jpg)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/th_IMG_0385.jpg) (http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/IMG_0385.jpg)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/th_IMG_0384.jpg) (http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/IMG_0384.jpg)
Mine is 11,5cm high.
In Marcus N. book on page 80, mentioned with height 15cm and "pattern number and factory unknown"
But it seems Jindrich has learned from his meetings from Mr. Vizner that it is his design from Libochovice 1963,
pattern 3244/125 mentioned on his picturealbum, so I think: How many sizes there may have been?
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That is lovely! :mrgreen: What a great find... but I was wondering why the label would be stuck on the inside of the jardiniere? (I know it's a small piece with ribbing to the front and back, but why wouldn't they stick the label on the side rather than place it on the inside?... just thinking out loud :))
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Not unusual, Anik. I´ve got three SU items with the label stuck to the inside... :huh:
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Not unusual, Anik. I´ve got three SU items with the label stuck to the inside... :huh:
REALLY? So maybe it's not so unusual afterall, but it's still strange ;D
P.S. Talking about labels, remember the Laděna Víznerová vase I posted a few days ago (the one you, Dirk, have also got?) Well, I just realized that when I bought the vase (after seeing it in a picture supplied by the seller) it had 3/4 of a label on it. When I got the vase, the label had been removed! Now why would he do that? Half a label is better than no label :spls:
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Because non-collectors don't realise collectors like labels (and need to see the bases of things without price labels). ::)
A jardinière is meant for pot plants, but I suspect it was used as a term for something that is neither bowl nor vase and needed describing.
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Well, we have made few steps forward in research of Czechoslovakian pressed glass in last two years thanks to first impuls given by Markus' Sklo Union (www.sklounion.com) book.
This piece is absolutely sure Vizner's 3244 - see the technical drawing from 14/07/1963
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/ViznerLibochovice3244?authkey=Gv1sRgCPKY3OKPs6bDNw#5492558978824926898
It has been produced in one size only, the correct dimensions you can see at drawing. This piece with complete all others including technical drawings designed by Frantisek Vizner you can find at my CD.
We (me and Max Velcovsky) interviewed the last still living designers Mr. Jan Schmid and Mr. Vladislav Urban, Max spoke also with Mr. Rudolf Jurnikl's widow few weeks ago, we have got plenty informations that should help us fill the gaps in attribution. But sorting of it will take some time so please be a bit patient.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskloslovenskesklo
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Anik, Christine: I do not _like_ labels ! >:( Of course I know they are important for ID, especially of items old enough when nobody has done such tremendous job as some documenting information as long as it is possible.. ;)
Personally, for example with this piece, in my eyes the yellow glow of the label spoils the beautiful shine and glow through the ribbing. But I guess I'll have to let it be. :huh: I would rather have it in the base well.
Jindrich: I would not find proper words to express the admiration, appreciation and gratitude I feel for you all (Marcus, you and Max as well as others) for the work you do even in my mother tongue, let alone in English. And it is wonderful despite of all the lack of time you must be facing you still bother to spread the pieces of information here at GMB!
I was very happy to find my vase in Marcus' book. Then even happier to find out that you had solved where it is from.
And now I am extremely happy to see the original beautiful drawing! THANK You. :rah:
Edit: P.S. added: Oh, Christine, thanks for the "jardinière" description. I knew jardin is garden in French but still.... :usd:
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I'm second to express my admiration, appreciation and gratitude to Jindrich -- especially for taking the time to answer our queries. (PX very nicely put!)
Anik
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Now I've got one of these as well... a wonderful design! ;D
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Missing label - I bet that reappeared in another auction.
Label spoils the view - remove it and stick it somewhere else with latex glue (white creamy stuff such as Copydex) which wont rot the label. The labellers cared not where they popped labels, only for their wage packet.
Jardiniere - I dislike the term, it was probably taken from a Czech-English dictionary and stuck because a lot of the english glass merchants were pompous and liked the name. Wide vase is much more descriptive and accurate. Good for flower arrangement on small tables.
It is a great design.
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jardiniere is correct Czech term, Frank, but we write it as žardiniera
possibly came from French.
Jindrich
www.cs-sklo.cz
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Because I'm just so posh, I like the term 'jardiniere' and will continue to use it rather than the common 'wide vase'. I can say it in Czech, Polish, and when I'm feeling particularly chic, in French with the correct accent.(http://serve.mysmiley.net/tongue/tongue0025.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
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A jardiniere is strictly for growing plants. The Victorian catalogues show glass ones containing growing plants not being used as vases. The term has become misused to mean a shape (i.e., something longer than it is wide) rather than a use, even though the original jardinieres weren't shape specific.
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Aw Christine, just when I thought I'd dazzle people with my language skills, you've gone and busted up this girl's fun... now there's just no point in being able to pronounce 'jardiniere' in three different languages. Woe is me. (http://serve.mysmiley.net/winking/winking0001.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)
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As I do like the word jardiniere as well ;D, I have to cite (German) wikipedia:
"...since appr. 1900 the word jardiniere also refers to a shallow, oblong centrepiece that is meant for an arrangement of fresh flowers..."
So in several middle European languages it seems to be the correct term for this style of vase.
(Here in Austria, quite a few French words found their way in the colloquial language, which is nice IMHO :))
Michael
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Having for the last 15 years lived in Germany, Holland and now France my language skills are incredible. Not to mention my knowledge of Latin, Greek and Arabic. So some might say amazing. Daughter Feli who is virtually fluent in all but German, but understands it and is currently teaching herself Japanese... always screams, whenever I demonstrate my remark-able linguistic skills, "Talk English!!!!! :grrr:" so I am stuck with my common unexciting dyslexic English. Which luckily everyone else speaks... so I assume :t:. I call my foreign language Nederdeutchfrankish as it borrows heavily from all 3 and usually in the same sentence :hi:, biggest bugbear is my pronunciation in all three segments is a little bit accented, so I am never surprised by the blank looks I get :thud: . But despite this remarkable failure in my persona I still dislike Jardinière... but I guess then that I must oblige the majority view and add Jardiniere to the SU descriptions when the shop site switches to reference only. :smg:
p.s. In Greek(Cretan) I know Glikristo, Arabic Bayt (took 6 months of evening classes to learn that one) and Latin ( :huh2: ).
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Michael, you're a hero! Now I can use 'jardiniere' to my heart's delight and not be completely wrong. ;D
Frank, your post made me laugh. Despite my jesting, I don't have any talent for languages either. But I do have a fabulous Frantisek Vizner 3244 'żardiniera' for my collection... my fourth Vizner pressed piece out of many I still wish to find.
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Frank, I have to admit that my foreign language skills are rather limited -- but my skills in searching the web for the definition of an old-fashioned term are great ;D
I think everybody should use the word he/she likes best -- 'wide vase' is all right with me. :)
Just wanted to point out that it is not necessarily a misused term...
Sometimes I am amazed which pieces the Czech glass makers declare a 'jardiniere' (like the one attached, which I would call a bowl :usd:)
Michael
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I think everybody should use the word he/she likes best -- 'wide vase' is all right with me. :)
Just wanted to point out that it is not necessarily a misused term...
I agree but for reference material personal taste should be avoided, the discussion is very helpful and of course how a word is used can differ widely between countries.