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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Frank on November 02, 2007, 12:52:19 PM

Title: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 02, 2007, 12:52:19 PM
The pictures in a book I have just digitised are anonymous but are of various (probably) Stourbridge area glassworks that hand-blown lead crystal and existed in 1946 - which means only 8 candidates. The pictures are all Crown Copyright, I have a licenses to put them in the Glass-Study, and all were taken by the Central Office of Information.

It would be great if we can ID the locations, people and maybe glass designs therein, the pages will be annotated with credit given.)
I will keep this page available as a sample of Glass-Study contents.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 02, 2007, 01:11:50 PM
Coo that was fast work Frank  :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 02, 2007, 01:21:22 PM
 :) Started Monday and I hope to get the last parts up this afternoon/evening Christine.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 03, 2007, 01:10:06 PM
I thought I put the link in!

Here it is:

http://www.glass-study.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=7
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Bernard C on November 04, 2007, 07:57:23 AM
Thanks for the link, Frank.   I'd thought that I was missing something obvious, so was reluctant to say anything to make myself look even more stupid than usual!

I can't see your glassworks remaining anonymous for long with that wealth of information.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 04, 2007, 12:02:09 PM
Probably recognition of the designs in the later images is feasible but getting some of the earlier ones will not be so easy. Perhaps someone will recognise a worker. I should think that at least two glassworks are covered but as the report was prepared by
Mr. G. W. Stuart (Stuart & Sons, Ltd.)
Mr. W. G. Riley (John Walsh Walsh, Ltd.)
Mr. E. M. Stuart (Stuart & Sons, Ltd.)
Mr. W. H. Aston (Stourbridge Glass Co., Ltd.)
Mr. W. Farquharson (John Walsh Walsh, Ltd.)
Mr. F. G. Gregory (Thos. Webb & Corbett, Ltd.)
Mr. S. Harvey (Harbridge Crystal Glass Co., Ltd.)
Mr. G. L. Hill (Stevens & Williams, Ltd.)
Mr. W. E. Cook (Stuart & Sons, Ltd.)
Mr. P. Guest (Thos. Webb & Corbett, Ltd.)
Dr. A. Kray (John Walsh Walsh, Ltd.)
Mr. K. Northwood (Stevens & Williams, Ltd.)
Mr. A. D. Price (Stourbridge Glass Co., Ltd.)
Mr. W. J. Wilson (James Powell & Sons (Whitefriars), Ltd.)
Lt.-Col. R. S. Williams-Thomas (Stevens & Williams, Ltd.)

It woud seem likely to have been one of those, but the report states 8 glassworks handblowing lead crystal remain in 1946, who could the others be? Webbs, Haden, Mullet & Haden, Amblecote and Brierley Hill? The reason it is only Stourbridge people was that the original instruction was to limit the report to that region. It was the team that decided it need to cover the whole country! I am of course irritated that they did not address Edinburgh Crystal directly but they did recommend "...a design research and training centre at Edinburgh." that had already been proposed by then. Which of course we all know was set up and highly successful it is too. Colin Terris for example!
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Bernard C on November 05, 2007, 07:32:17 AM
Frank — It depends on what the 8 meant.   If the 8 excluded WF, then, as you say, Webb and HMH look the most likely.   If it included WF, then the eighth was probably Webb.   Of course that doesn't mean that HMH wasn't producing cut glass, as, for example, at the time of the report they could have been sending the blanks out to cutting workshops, which could have excluded them from being counted into the 8.   I would imagine that backyard cutting workshops were fully employed at this time, making up for the lack of skilled staff caused by the war.

What a heavyweight and interesting set of names.   Further evidence, I believe, for the view that at senoir management level they all knew each other.   Is there any indication of Kray's position at Walsh?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2007, 10:35:12 AM
Dr Kray sat on the production sub-committee. There were more impressive names, giving information to the committee.

The co-operation went wider than the UK as some of the committee took trips to the US and Sweden to compare the industries there with extensive reports giving a fascinating insight into different ways of working as well as attitudes.

The eight are I believe Stourbridge area, I am currently proof reading the whole book and will report back on this.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2007, 11:35:20 AM
Interesting snippet

Quote
Since just before the first world war 29 hand-blown factories have closed and only two new factories have opened, though to some extent this has been offset by increase in size of the remaining factories. Production on the whole, however, has diminished appreciably since 1910.

This next, just goes to show I should stop relying on my memory, it does not play fair anymore!
Quote
Lead crystal glassware, domestic and fancy, is now made by eight firms in ten factories, six of which are in the Stourbridge area. The other factories are in Edinburgh, Birmingham, London and Tutbury. The firms which own the factories at Edinburgh and Tutbury each have a factory also at Stourbridge. All eight firms are incorporated as limited liability companies, two being public and the rest private companies.

However, for the photos, I think it unlikely (not impossible) that the Central Office of Information photographers would not have gone to multiple areas.

Walsh of course were Birmingham and WF London, Edinburgh was Webb as owner of E&L and Tutbury was Webbs too. So that leaves five 'firms' in Stourbridge. Or did Webb's sell one of those by 1946?
For Stourbridge six then: Stuart & Sons, Thos. Webb & Corbett, Harbridge Crystal, Webb's Crystal, Stourbridge Glass Co.,

Stevens & Williams are Brierley Hill, is that considered Stourbridge region.

Playing the numbers game Haden, Mullet & Haden are clearly out of the picture by 1946/7 see also http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,17776.0.html
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2007, 11:43:39 AM
Worker numbers

Quote
...workers employed in the industry at the beginning of 1947 ... of these 617 were glasshouse workers and 507 decorators, compared with 707 and 947 in 1938.

and skipping all the details results in

Quote
a deficiency of 195 glasshouse workers and 564 decorators.

The shortage of decorators later being blamed, in part, on the introduction in the 1930's of minimalist designs. It included a recommendation to increase the use of enamel for decoration - a trend that certainly happened after this point - although I consider that to have as much to do with the success of high volume enamelled ware in the US before WW2.

Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2007, 04:15:32 PM
Further evidence, I believe, for the view that at senoir management level they all knew each other.

Although the report criticises and praises family run firms (dominant), for going their own way but preserving quality methodology, in the between the wars era. It does make many recommendations of co-operative ventures and activities that require very close co-operation, foe example:
Quote
39. We recommend that, whilst maintaining their existing character on which their valuable goodwill has been built up, the firms in the industry should also consider setting up a co-operative modern glass works, employ­ing mechanical production methods, the output of which could be marketed through the existing firms, with or without further processing in their decorating shops, to cater for the medium price domestic market and the hotel, railway and shipping company trade.
I don't think that got off the ground but certainly many of their recommendations were significant in what happened in the glass industry through the next ten years or so. The report needs a meticulous review to see just what its impact was.

Another mention of the 8 firms is that 2 were publicly owned and 6 private - although it did stipulate family for the latter.

The proposals for the Czech glass industry as reported in Vol 1 of Czech Glass Review also come in for strong criticism.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Bernard C on November 05, 2007, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: Frank
... and Tutbury was Webbs too. So that leaves five 'firms' in Stourbridge. Or did Webb's sell one of those by 1946? ...

Frank — I think you will find that Tutbury was owned by Webb & Corbett.

Brenner, Robert, Depression Glass for Collectors, Schiffer, 1998 notes that Swanky Swigs evolved from the production of dual purpose containers for the Kraft Cheese Company as far back as 1933.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on November 05, 2007, 07:41:24 PM
PG in 31 gave Royal Castle Flint Glass Works, Tutbury, Staffs as Webb's Crystal Glass Co, Ltd. and that they used the works for making electric lamps. Which would seem to knock it off the list for Lead Crystal anyway! Perhaps they sold it or, is there another Tutbury?
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Bernard C on November 05, 2007, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Roger Dodsworth in BGbtW
... Tutbury Glass Works, Tutbury, Staffs, taken over by Webb and Corbett in 1906 and run by them during 1920s and 30s. ...

From my own experience, Tutbury was still making cut crystal at the time of this report.   Both marks shown in BGbtW are known with a "T" in the centre.

Looks to me like two glassworks, or one that had been split into two.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on December 08, 2007, 02:57:14 PM
While indexing the GA's Glass Cone for the Glass-Study, I found a reference to this report in an article about Stourbridge School of Art. It turns out that three of the pictures are of a Charles D. Stanier who is regarded as one of the most skilled glassmakers of his time, appearing in photos 4, 5 and 19. Joined the college as glassmaking instructor and heavily involved with the Glass trade unions. Adds confusion, were the pictures posed or were they pictures he had available at the art school. It was his reputation that lead Stuart & Sons to frequently use him in their adverts.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: simon bruntnell on December 10, 2007, 06:08:10 PM
There's two site here Webbs and Stuarts the big furnace is now a theatre and display hall housing the IFG 2004 I will ask Brian Mason to have a look at the people. The one room is my studio in your shots I think
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Tony H on December 17, 2007, 09:31:45 AM
Frank
Very intersting topic, I was very surprised and pleased to see in the link you gave, a vase which I have seen in a Antique shop not far from were I live, I took a trip to this shop today and it was my lucky day, the vase was still there, I know the shop owner quite will so I was able to have a good look at the vase, it is a wonderful piece, I forgot to measure it but I would say it is about 12" high by 6" diameter at the top, and it is signed, H Cook No 72.

Now the question who is/was H Cook and was this a limited edtion of, how many? and who was the glass firm?

Here are two photos, the one of the base shows the signiture double as the base acted like a mirror
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Tony H on December 20, 2007, 03:29:42 AM
Frank
Hi just a bump as this topic had gone to page 2, have you read my post was it of any help?
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on December 20, 2007, 11:51:05 AM
Hi Tony, a bit too stressed out to reply to everything at the mo. But very well spotted, did you buy it?

I was hoping that someone would ID the vase... is it a Webb, Stuart, Harbridge etc. Getting info on the cutter would be interesting too.

And Simon can you relate your pictures to those in the book (link) please.
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Tony H on December 20, 2007, 06:14:22 PM
Frank
Hi at this time I do not know who made this piece as the only mark is of H Cook No 72, my first choice would be Stuart, I will see what info I can find, I have done some searching but no luck at the moment.

I did not buy this piece, would love to but the asking price is NZ$550 which is a bit more that can spare at the moment
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Frank on April 08, 2014, 12:57:05 AM
I thought I put the link in!

Here it is:

http://www.glass-study.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=7

Link was broken, corrected here:
http://www.glass-study.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:hand-blown-domestic-glassware-06&catid=209&Itemid=198

Any fresh thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: David E on April 08, 2014, 09:41:04 PM
I think this topic would be better served if moved to the British & Irish forum...
Title: Re: Identify Stourbridge works and people...
Post by: Dizliz on July 21, 2016, 05:49:01 AM
To Frank and everybody thank you my great grandfathers nephew is Samuel Harvey I am so grateful to all of you for filling in a gap for me