Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: PAUL H on March 31, 2008, 07:03:21 PM
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Hi everyone... I have 6 of these goblets.. they are very roughly done, lots of bubbles rough pontil mark, etc
They are blue in colour and have 2 blobs of amber glass applied to the sides their height is 170mm, across the top 60mm
and they weigh @400grams.. does anyone know of their origins, designer or any info? Thanks Paul
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9764
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9761
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9767
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9762
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I have 18 ! of these with a matching decanter and have tried in vain to find out about their origin. Alas, no.
My current thinking is 1970s Mallorca glass - but any more detailed suggestion is welcome.
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Hi Ivo.. Have you any pictures of the glasses, I would love to see the decanter please. Paul
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this is it
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Thanks for your help Ivo. Paul
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I agree that Spanish seems likely. My first thought was Mexican, second was Spanish. I don't know how much Mexican glass you have over there.
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Hi Ivo,I have seen similar items in Majorca, the Gordiola Glassworks is my bet,it is well worth a visit they will even let you have a go, and they also have a very comprehensive Museum with not only generations of their own glass but also other Spanish glass,i am also convinced it was them who made the enamelled glass signed Royo that many people thought was Moser,i am looking forward to going this summer to have a nose around, if you want to contact them they are in ALGAIDA They also have a showroom and shop just down the road.Regards JP.
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They have an online catalogue, no Royo. http://www.gordiola.com/
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That is a wonderful find, especially the downloadable PDF book on the company and family history - even if not all the illustrations seem to make it across.
I had not come across them and now managed to identify a whole category of my collection. The carefully pinched work, the typical colours, the various prunts and surfaces - it is all very recognisable.
I know that Royo glass is from the mainland, their type of vessel and decoration is different from the Gordiola or Lafiore produce.
I would be confident to call my unpractical decanter and the overload of goblets Gordiola.
JP :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:
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Thanks Folks thats made my day,what a great catalogue and video i think this may solve a lot of unanswered questions about glass,many of them have been buzzing around in my head for years,i still havnt got my head round computers when i do there will be no stopping me.Ivo what makes you think the Royo pieces come from the mainland do you have more info.Regards JP. :chky:
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Last time I saw a swarm of Royo in a shop was in Toledo, but not anywhere else in Spain. The decoration style is Neo-Mudejar - which points at mainland. I have spoken to the sales manager of Lafiore some years ago who had never even heard of it, and he would have it it were Balearic. Royo is thinly blown and thickly enameled with gold, meaning fired three times with very careful oven control - not something that matches the Gordiola style. For the rest it is a well kept secret, and has been for years.
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Such secrecy about the source might be taken to imply made in China. >:D
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...NOT!
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As you probably know i am a stubborn old bxgger,i still believe Royo=Gordiola,JP. :huh:
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:)
Ivo, if the Royo source is kept so hidden why is not possible that they are made outside of Spain to a specific design? The range is not cheap and this makes the anonymity of the actual producer all the more puzzling? It could also be that it is just a decorating firm, using non-Spanish blanks, based in Spain if they use "Made In..." marks/labels.
I agree that Gordiolo do not look like they are set up for such production.
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Frank that is blatant speculation. You may have missed the first 10 years of this discussion, started when glass mythology believed Royo was a Moser brand. Well we sufficiently proved it is not - it is as Spanish as Rabo de Toro - see e.g. the porrón underneath. It does not get spanisher than that. Please don't start another myth as it takes so long to rectify.
http://www.todocoleccion.net/vinagrera-cristal-pintado-firmado-royo-s-xx~x8046075
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Well i have just had a quick look at parts of the book,i think it was page 64 1936"another new feature was the decorating or enamelling of the glassware in the workshop adjoining the furnace. Display case 10 topaz with birds and flowers" i have several of these some marked Royo some not,i also have several other items identical to ones shown on other pages some are thin glass others are thick glass.I believe The author Gary Baldwin was one of those that said Royo was by Moser he later corrected this after being told by Moser that this was wrong.The book is fascinating reading, i am going back to it now.JP
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Hi folks i am a very happy person tonight, for many years i have believed Royo was by the Mallorcan Gordiola Glassworks and not Moser,i had shelved my interest for the last few years but then up popped this thread by Ivo sparking it off again and BINGO- EUREKA.Today i have found a piece identical to a Royo Vase i own and the base is marked Gordiola Mallorca,i was also helped by Frank finding the Gordiola webbsite,do you want my autograph for your next book Ivo,or shall we just not tell the rest of the world.JP :chky: :chky: :chky:
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Fabulous news, can you manage to get some photographic substance?
:hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:
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Yes but it may take a couple of days, to me its like i have just discovered penicillin.
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Excellent news! Who is going to tell them the secret is out :clap:
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JP, I'm curious what first suggested to you that Royo was made by Gordiola?
I don't know Spanish, and couldn't find the online book, so this idea may be off-base. I hate to even suggest it, but I wonder whether it's possible the glass in your vase may have been made by Gordiola, but it was decorated elsewhere.
Where does Cire fit into all this? Is that not such a secret?
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Well first of all it was a gut feeling,i have been collecting all types of glass for about thirty years in this time i have seen many signatures on Gordiola glass another signature is cuneo and one has souvenir Ibiza on it, the shapes and the enameling are copies or Spanish glass from a couple of centuries earlier ie canine and flora-fauna and flora,in Mallorca i had a chance to buy a book on Spanish glass but didnt have enough pesetas with me and many of the shapes and enameling were in it as typical Spanish,the Gordiola book mentions their new enamaling shop next to the furnaces,c1930,my final proof arrived a few minutes ago signed Gordiola Mallorca it was sold to me as Italian. also i have been accused of being psychic. now awaiting new camera, my birthday is on St Georges day, wont be long.
PS. Many of the pieces carry the coat of arms of Spanish regions.
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Just had a mail from Jesús Fernández at Gordiola who confirms that the Royo pieces were indeed made by Gordiola, and decorated at the oven in enamel folk themes by catalan artist Royo. He will come back with more information on the time period.
There is no getting around it any more.
Efectivamente, estas piezas estan realizadas por Vidrios Gordiola, y
decoradas en pintura artesanal al horno por Royo (personaje catalán) .
En otro e-mail le informaré de la época.
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:clap: :clap: :clap: I guess a lot of Moser collectors will be selling off soon.
Other Royo discussion on GMB
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1565.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2048.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2505.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5108.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8796.0.html
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Thanks for the help Ivo and Frank i hadnt seen any of the previous posts,i am glad i am stubborn and didnt give up,i will definately take a course in computing it will make research a lot easier and i have the time now,i wonder if i have made more friends than enemies cracking this.Algaida is a must for you all now.thanks for the help all.Regards JPH
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Using SEARCH near the top left of the screen is a great way to research on the GMB as it finds the word in all forums.
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It is indeed quite a mystery to have cracked! That's excellent. I've wondered about it for a long time myself, before I knew anyone else who questioned the Moser connection. Thanks, JP, for bringing Royo into the discussion! Kudos to you and your gut feelings. :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:
And thanks, Ivo, for writing to Gordiola to confirm it!
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Thanks, Ivo... I sent them an email also - but hadn't heard back yet. I have one Royo piece in my collection (very inexpensive) - now I can update the description in the gallery! Woot!
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Odd that they say it was done at the oven...they must mean it was fired on, right? Enamel and gold are applied to cold glass.
JP, any gut feelings about Cire? That's another one I've wondered about. I did a search of the board for Cire and at least one thread seemed to suggest Royo and Cire are one and the same, but it seems to me the styles are somewhat different.
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Yes 100% the same there are also other names probably had several different craftsmen, one i have seen several times is Cuneo or something like that,i bet Gordiola will have a lot of visitors this year, it is a fantastic place and not too far from Porto Pollensa now thats Paradise.
On ebay now 150234033496 a nice piece of Gordiola posing as Venetian. I dont buy from USA had too many attempted scams.
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see ebay item 170225430335 Moser - Royo i emailed the lady and very politely told her of my findings
i have just received a very stern reply telling me i have got it wrong she has now added to the listing
a quote from Hartmann Lexicon that Royo and Cire are Moser,well you cant win them all can you.
ps i have noticed the Spanish are buying Royo now
SORRY IVO our findings
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It's a shame the people think Royo pieces will be worth a lot less if they aren't by Moser. It's like the quality doesn't matter as much as the name, and that's not right. Some Royo pieces are wonderful - the glass is creative and well-crafted, the enamel is nicely executed, the pieces reflect a unique Spanish glass tradition. And there are plenty of Moser pieces that aren't particularly high quality or noteworthy.
Every once in a while I write to a seller telling them they've made a wrong attribution. I think about half the time I get a reasonably polite note back. Many people don't want to be told they've got things wrong - go figure. I've almost stopped posting in the ebay Pottery Glass and Porcelain forum, I get so tired of people jumping to conclusions and holding on to them in the face of all evidence to the contrary (or no evidence). Sellers become blinded by the mighty dollar.
There's one ebay seller in particular that annoys me to no end by "guaranteeing" his/her wrong attributions.
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Yes the vase this lady is selling is quite stunning,i would like it myself.
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Having had a few pieces of Royo, they're just not the same quality as Moser. That said, they're quite attractive pieces, to me anyway :)
JP and Ivo :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp: Well done!
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I said that wrong...I didn't mean to suggest that Royo is comparable to Moser as a whole. Just that not every Moser piece is stunning, and there are bits of Royo I've seen that I'd take over some Moser. Partly because I don't have any, and want some! One of those two-headed decanters with the chicken stoppers, f'rinstance.
The quality of Royo enamel work seems to vary widely.
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Three items on ebay international at the moment with a little more info in the text , one is even signed made in Spain and an importers name . 310135898066 - 290258410589 - 230236955318 .jp :thup: ps one of the sellers says the piece is signed Jose Cire Royo but doesnt show the signature .
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Ufff - it is SO hard to get it right isn't it.
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Thanks, Ivo... I sent them an email also - but hadn't heard back yet. I have one Royo piece in my collection (very inexpensive) - now I can update the description in the gallery! Woot!
As an update - I just sold my (correctly listed) Royo cabinet vase to a buyer... in Spain. :)
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Did you ask them for more information Warren?