Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Lustrousstone on January 19, 2013, 03:51:18 PM
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OK, a lot of a showing off. These are just fabulous. I walked on air for about a fortnight after I picked them up for a snip. Made in Webb's 1866 honeycomb mould design in about 1902 in its patented Alexandrite
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Gorgeous!
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And even more glorious in reality... one of these was the true star of the fair in B'ham last November and some of us were even allowed to touch it and hold it up to the light and see all its glory from different angles. 8)
Tell the truth, Christine. You're still walking on air. ;)
The second pic is really good - you've managed to catch the fabby blue colour at the top. Not a shred of chocolate brown in these glasses - all absolutely perfect and as they should be. sigh.
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thank you for sharing - something else to add to my wish list ;D
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Mum and I drank our Christmas slposh out of them...
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Ohhhhhhh wow! Those are superb, Christine! x
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And it's still affecting your spilling, C. ;)
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Now those are veerrry nice, ;D ;D ;D
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Keith, I think we ought to start following this lady around (Mr. Green). Could break out in a sweat just thinking about them - why did you have to go and say a 'snip', makes it even worse;D Congrats. Christine
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I didn't have to be excited on my own; David and Patricia were with me, albeit in another room. We agreed with the ladies on the desk that they were very pretty while trying not to grin like Cheshire cats
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... and I still think the group looks better as four glasses, not five ;)
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ooh they are beautiful - so classy. I can imagine the Christmas splosh tasted fab :)
m
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what fantastic score. I'd have been SO afraid of drinking out of them. :o LOL
CONGRATS!
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so would I - they'd go straight into the cabinet, for looking at only!! Assume you've seen the pieces in the Truitt's book, and how about the vase in R. S. Williams-Thomas book - you could die for that. The Truitt's appear to be saying that Alexandrite was a British product only, and came from Thomas Webb and S & W only, although admitting that whilst it could have been produced in the States, they didn't seem to be aware of any pieces from their side of the pond.
However, Williams-Thomas seems confident in saying that there were "several other producers in England (apart than themselves), the Continet and the States".
Do we think he might have been confusing this rarer product, which is charactierized by three colours, with the far more common Amberina which consists of only two, and which doesn't have the terminal blue shading of the Alexandrite??
I guess it wouldn't be impossible to confuse the two.
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Not after you've seen them in vitro!
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thought that was something to do with IVF :-\ ;)
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In vitro means, quite literally, "in glass", so IVF means "in glass fertilisation".
(Immoral waste of taxpayers' money, when there are so many older kids desperate for adoption, but a vote-catcher. >:( )
"In vitro" is an expression commonly used in science to denote that a particular experiment was carried out in test tubes, rather than "in vivo" which denotes being carried out in life - in a living system.
it just seems natural to use "in vitro" to denote an experience with the glass itself. :)
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Stevens and Williams is a totally different technique involving different coloured melts of glass and was undoubtedly not unique. The Webb Alexandrite is just one melt of uranium based glass containing ingredients such that successive reheating causes a change from pink then to blue. Some of the Webb items don't even have the blue.
Which Truitt book and which page please?
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apologies Christine :-[ - (sometimes I take so many books off the shelves in one day, but knew it was something from the States) - it is in fact the Grover's book 'Art Glass Nouveau' - page 182, although expect you've seen it already. Unfortunately, background colours in some of the plates don't do the quality of the pix any favours.
Sue, thanks...........so, is this the Latin root from which the C19 factories gave us the word vitrified? ......... and vivo, I think, is found, adapted slightly, to give us the word viviparous for those creatures having the ability to give birth to fully formed young........as in some reptiles (as opposed to eggs).
I'd like to hold one, but still cannot bring myself to use them for booze. ;)
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I haven't got that one, just their cameo glass one
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:)
Same latin root; yes, Paul.
I always have to stifle a giggle when folk say they want to see glass "in real life", given that's technically the opposite of what they mean...
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Alexandrite also mentioned and a pic of a vase in Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 page 316 and page 318.
m
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Nahhh Vitrol its a kind of Marmite . ::)
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You're thinking Virol, yum yum...
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And after consulting with Christine, here's a footed sweetmeat/bon-bon footed dish that I was lucky enough to purchase yesterday.
Dimensions are 17.3mm widest x 6.4mm high.
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very nice - these things always make me think of the word psychadelic. Is this really less than one inch across and a quarter of an inch high? :)
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Ooops, centimetres not millimetres, of course! :-[
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You're a lucky laddie to have found this, David - nice one!
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I have passed the comport onto Tina Neale and David King, who will be displaying it on their stand at the Cambridge Glass Fair.
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that's rather gorgeous :)
Beautiful colours - off to have another read of alexandrite now.
m
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Another example of Webb Alexandrite, this time a 6 inch plate. Managed to capture the fabled 'chocolate' colour in the third photo.
John
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Very nice John, but I notice the moulded diamond optic is not present. I wonder if that's normal?
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aah that's beautiful colours :) It's such a wondrous type of glass isn't it?
m
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There was a glass which was just optic ribbed for sale (locked away in a cabinet with other expensive stuff) at the Cambridge fair when Christine brought her diamondy one to show us.
your (fabby, fabby) plate does look as if it is a bit wavy - is it optic ribbed?
Wavy is how that would be on a plate. ;)
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That wave is just in the amethyst band (it repeats eight times, like eight gentle crimps).
Not all is diamond optic it seems, the plate in this completed ebay auction has many more undulations and a pattern in the centre too, not so sure about the bowl being Alexandrite though: click here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-Thomas-Webb-Sons-Alexandrite-Art-Glass-Finger-Bowl-and-Underplate-NO-RES-/251560824772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a92318fc4)
Vase: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9552018
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It's really hard to tell from those images. ???
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Sorry Sue, I just added another link.
Google image search for Webb A: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=webb+alexandrite&client=firefox-a&hs=N5g&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-bTOU9zqNfTT7AbhgYHYBA&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=789#imgdii=_
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The colours really do come out differently on almost every single piece, don't they?
I see there is a fingerbowl underplate the same shape as yours, but almost no colour at all - just goes from clear and yellowy through to blue.
My complaint was more about the sort of pictures taken (not showing the glass to its best advantage, unlike yours ;) ) and the difficulty of even seeing them in that silly moving, jerky enlargement box bit...
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So what are we thinking about this amber-to-amethyst one then? Is it related? It is optical blown, has a height of 15 cm (6") and a diameter on top of 12. There is a neatly polished pontil mark on the bottom.
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The colours are unusual and lovely, Ivo - but it's a very thick and solid sort of beast, isn't it?
All other Webb's Alexandrite I've seen is incredibly finely blown... ???
It really doesn't seem to me to be related - just from a manufacturing point of view.
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OK fair enough - it is quite solid.
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I've been checking the link to the load of google search images, Ivo . There is a thick lumpy one in there (that isn't just plain old amberina stuff)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=webb+alexandrite&client=firefox-a&hs=N5g&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-bTOU9zqNfTT7AbhgYHYBA&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=789#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=kVUNk6HiV1FrdM%253A%3B_XIu0sCHpWW3QM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.kovels.com%252Fprice_guide%252Fglass%252Fwebb%252Fwebb-vase-ea073010-0426.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.kovels.com%252Fprice-guide%252Fglass-price-guide%252Fwebb.html%3B350%3B350
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Ivo's looks like New England Bluerina
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Sounds very likely - thank you!
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Puzzled on comments above re the chocolate-brown colour seen when viewed on edge. I handled all of Parkington's Alexandrite and his impostor examples, he told me the effect was what defined the Webb version.
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'Puzzled on comments above re the chocolate-brown colour seen when viewed on edge. I handled all of Parkington's Alexandrite and his impostor examples, he told me the effect was what defined the Webb version.'
I also understood this to be a defining factor as to whether or not a piece was a Webb's Alexandrite piece. There is another recent thread where this effect/factor is discussed in quite a lot of detail.
I'll try and find it and link it to this one.
m
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Is it written down anywhere, Frank - or was that just his personal interpretation because some did get overstruck, or did he have "insider knowledge"?
Haveing seen and held and examined Christine's goblets, where the brown is absent, they look completely right. Brown just doesn't go with the other colours.
(mind you, I don't think "brown" goes with anything ;) )
I don't know of any "Alexandrite" made by other makers - unless it's neodynium. I thought this tri/quaternary colour heat struck thing was purely "Webb's Alexandrite", "Alexandrite" being the name they specifically gave to this range.
Kind of like the names given to colours by wfs, so you know where you are with "wfs kingfisher", but it would be wrong to describe all turquoises, particularly those from other makers, as "kingfisher".
I'm still not sure if we are yet sure whether the brown is supposed to be there or not. ;D
I speculated not, because it does absolutely nothing to improve it.
This is the big thread where the other discussion got going. It was a bit OT to the OP's post.
How do I tell M to stop looking for it?
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56652.0.html
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;D Thanks Sue - I had a 'warning someone else has posted' just as I was about to post it.
I've not time to read it all again at the mo, but I did think (could very well be wrong though) that Christine discovered there was some chocolate on her glasses when looking into the rim? Did I 'think' wrong?
m
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It looks like a dichroic effect.
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It is a dichroic effect.
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Trichroic according to my info
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Makes little sense as only the chocolate colour is affected by angle of view. Other colours are constant.
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Hello everyone,
I was so exercised by this and a couple of other threads I even had to get myself a new password to make a comment :o ;)
My understanding of Thomas Webb's Alexandrite is that it should be four colours - citrine yellow, going to rose pink, then blue with a chocolate brown rim. I wouldn't have thought they are dichroic - that is to say no piece that I have handled has changed colour according to the light source, rather all the colours remain available to the naked eye.
If there are only three colours (with brown missing) then it is regarded by all long term collectors as a poor version and consequently of lesser value to them. Still most of us would be happy to get one of those lesser examples ;) :)
TTFN, Nigel
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Now you're here, Nigel, and mentioning "long-term collectors" of (presumably) Webb's Alexandrite, do you have any idea of how many of those collectors there are?
Is there enough to go around for there to actually be a collector base?
I do seem to remember we had suspected there really was not a lot of it around.
Are you able to enlighten us in any way?
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I have had several collectors of Webb's Alexandrite for over 24 years.
The fact that it is scarce means that some folks want to form small select collections. Think of it this way it takes less space and overall uses less money than broader collections - although each purchase may well be expensive as not all are as lucky as Sue was with her find.
Both Frank and are were lucky enough to see and handle the largest of these - Michael Parkington's. Certainly a dozen pieces of which one created a record price in the Christies sale when it was sold after his, and Peggy's deaths. It went back to the original seller!
Nigel
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It was Christine and then DavidE. and then John who found some. Not me, Nigel.
I haven't been that lucky yet. :'(
It's just that there has been talk before of something (and I can't remember what now, but it was very high quality) something that there wasn't a lot of - and the prices did not reach the skies, simply because there wasn't enough of it around to support any sort of collector base - it was just too obscure.
(ps. give Celia a hug from me!)
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Sorry all. I was visualising Christine and thinking your name Sue, doh!!
Something I didn't detail earlier was that there were five items of Alexandrite in each of the Parkington sales, making a total of ten, but split into six lots (three in each sale). The largest (tallest) piece was a single drinking glass with a hollow stem, having a ribbed foot, but bowl and stem were plain it - this was the one that achieved the highest price. The ten pieces split into five plain and five with diamond moulding.
Noting the split of moulded and plain items it is therefore not a characteristic that should be used for identification of Webb's Alexandrite.
Blimely Sue, she doesn't let me hug her, so................ ;) :)
Cheers, Nigel
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Thanks Nigel, it is very useful to have more information, it all helps to add context.
I could end up making a hash of the following but in for a penny...
As I understand it (which is not a lot) a dichroic effect in glass is seen when the glass is viewed from different angles. It is akin to a polarizing effect as far as I can tell (not that I really understand that either).
It is a different process than that seen in say neodymium glass where the effect appears when the light source is changed between incandescent/daylight and fluorescent light.
John
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hmmm, mine shows a fine chocolate rim in every light ... and whether lit from behind or in front, and whether viewed from top or side. It's a very very fine chocolate line but it's there at all times. It doesn't look like a dichroic effect to me (is the Lycurgus Cup classed as dichroic i.e. shows green when viewed from front but with light shone behind it, but shows as a red piece when light is shone from the front onto it and therefore refracted off the glass?)
However, I've no idea how the chocolate rim was created (although pretty sure it wasn't 'added' on in anyway). I presumed it was the colour that resulted from the reheating of the glass at the edge.
m
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It is only an edge effect but is usually visible because of the way the lip was curved. As I recall it was possible to turn it to an angle it did not show. I know we (Michael and I) talked about the dichroic aspect as I saw these shortly after having the first and only dichroic Monart in my hands for a few days.
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ok thanks Frank - then I will have another go at 'hiding' the chocolate rim tomorrow in daylight and report back.
m
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There's a good image of a small vase in Alexandrite here: http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/preview-gallery-19and20c.html (http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/preview-gallery-19and20c.html)
Enjoy :) Nigel