Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Belgium and the Netherlands Glass => Topic started by: langhaugh on January 22, 2009, 07:43:49 PM
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This is recent acquisition that will be loved whatever its provenance. It's about 2 1/2 inches tall with a slightly concave bottom, and uses the ariel technique. The photographs make the green stronger. In reality, it's a lighter green that is more in the background. It's unsigned. I hoped it might be a Kaj Franck, but the photographs of the Franck vases I've seen (and I've never seen an actual vase) make his green look solid. On this vase the colour is grainy.
Any help gratefully received.
David
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I can't help on the maker, I'm afraid, but this isn't really the Ariel technique although I understand why some people use this description, erroneously.
Ariel was a highly complex technique developed at Orrefors. It was a two stage process like the Graal technique, and involved blowing a blank, often with a series of overlays,, which was annealed and cold worked, with deep engraving or sandblasting, prior to reheating the blank in a kiln, picking up on a blowing iron and encasing in a heavy layer of molten glass, trapping large air-bubbles to create an internal pattern.
By contrast, your vase has been made by rolling the first gather in powdered colour, dipping it into an optic mould, also called a rib mould, and then gathering another layer of molten glass in order to trap some bubbles.
Similar, but not the same! The difference between espresso and instant coffee, perhaps? ;)
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Thanks for the clarification, Adam. Interesting how terms get misused. I bought the vase as I liked it and it reminded me of vases by Franck, Copier, and Ohrstrom. I checked Designlasin and it pictures a similar looking vase by Franck, but with not much description of technique. My Copier book is in Dutch and also contains a similar looking vase. When I ran "Franck Ariel: and "Copier Ariel" on Google, I got the vases I was looking for. After Adam's reply, I put the Copier text into Babelfish and it gave me "Colourlessly bubble Len locked up with and elongated according to drawing." So Leerdam doesn't call it ariel. And neither does Pina in "Fire and Sea," where she pictures a Franck vase with "elongated bubble inclusions." So it's, as Adam suggests, a common error on the internet, and by some quite reputable dealers.
I can see why the error might have started. For example, on the same page of Pina as the Franck vase there is an Ohrstrom Ariel bowl that looks quite similar, as do some of the his onion shaped "ariel objects" from the 1940's, which are pictured in the Orrefors book (Duncan, p. 152) and in Friedman, p. 66. It would be interesting to know how to tell the difference. I understand Adam's description of ariel, and his description of the bubbles in my vase coming from an optic mould makes perfect sense. But how can I tell the difference by looking?
I liked the comment about espresso and instant coffee, but isn't more the difference between tea and coffee? (I can't bring myself to think of that little vase as instant coffee.)
I wonder if the moderator could take the "ariel" out of the heading, so I don't perpetuate the confusion? Thanks.
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But how can I tell the difference by looking?
It isn't always obvious, but just above the bubbles in your vase there is a line of darker green. When you dip your gather into an optic mould like this, you effectively get a shape like the Rome handle on this page http://www.aaronsonnoon.com/work.php?navID=7&subID=5 although to achieve bubbles like yours, the ribs of the mould need to be more pronounced. So your first gather would look a bit like a lemon squeezer. When this is dipped in the furnace for a second gather the viscosity of the glass is such that air is trapped within the grooves.
If you can try to imagine the contours of a lemon squeezer, it has peaks and troughs. In the troughs the colour becomes concentrated to almost a double layer. Does this make sense? ;)
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Adam: That makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to provide such a clear answer. Of course, the only completely satisfying answer is for me to buy an Ohrstrom piece so I can make the comparison more directly.
David
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Hi David,
This vase looks like it might be early Verlys of France production, i.e. the range of blown, air trap decorated items they produced from the mid 1920s-early 30s before moving on to pressed glass. Cappa (1998) shows two vases with similar decoration (Nos. 765 & 766: p. 437).
The cased powders and vertical air trap pattern all look correct for Verlys and while I haven't seen this shape before, it looks broadly right. The only problems are I haven't seen this colour before and these pieces are usually signed....
Steven
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Steven:
Thanks for the pointer. I don't have much on Verlys and a quick internet search suggests that they produced pressed glass. This piece is handblown. Is Verlys still a possibility?
Thanks.
David
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Snap - I believe it's Leerdam Copier Serica circa 1935 (source - Andries Dirk Coper Leerdams Glas 1923 - 1971 - Heiremans Marc), although yours looks a little smaller- colour in real life's a bit darker than the picture..
Gareth
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Gareth:
That's the closest I've seen. The colour in your picture is very close the colour in mine. Also, there's a black and white drawing of a similar vase in the book by Liefkes (also 1935). Leerdam and Copier make sense as the other little vase I had on the board turned out to be Leerdam and this vase comes from the same source.
BTW, the vase is in nice company in your picture. Is that a Lindstrand vase behind?
Thanks for taking the time and including the pictures.
David
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Here's a close up and a clip out of the above book (for reference purposes only)
re the picture, it was to help someone pick bits for a swap - front row right, middle row left and middle are Lindstrand. Front row left and back row are Hadeland. Middle row right is Nyman.
Gareth
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I have some doubts. The colour should be turquoise, not green - the height 8 cm the diameter 12. If different, it's back to the drawing board.
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Ivo,
You observation made me think we needed to find one that had been attributed, and then I remembered Botterweg's auctions:
http://www.botterweg.com/Auction/Bid/tabid/59/auctionid/5/tag/Leerdam/lotid/611/language/en-US/Default.aspx
I think I'm happy that mine is the same as this :huh:, but I now don't know about David's - how much variation would there typically be in such bits ?
Gareth
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Not much - but some. Meijdam makes more sense than Copier, anyway.
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My vase is definitely different in shape from the one in the Botterweg auction, less bulbous and a wider mouth Also, mine has 18 ribs whereas the Botterweg seems to have 19 But doesn't the one in Ricke look very like the one in the auction, yet one is by Meydam and the other by Copier? Just for for reference and interest, I've included a copy of the page from Liefkes which shows Copier vases, Serica 44 and 45, with same technique, different shape, but the Serica 45 at least is in green
I've looked at the photographs of a few Franck pieces now and I'm fairly sure I can rule him out. The similarity of the colour, the texture, and the technique keep me coming back to Leerdam.
David
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The best thing is to ask Willem Botterweg who is better documented than any of us.
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Great suggestion. The email has been sent. I hope you don't mind I quoted your name and advice.
David
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Hi,
This vase is definitely designed by Floris Meydam for Leerdam, from the same series as I had in previous auctions, and also in the auction that will start in about two weeks (Feb.12th'09, www.botterweg.com (http://www.botterweg.com)).
I do have a copy of the ca.1950 Leerdam catalogue which contains this particular series with serica numbers.
Especcially those numbers are important, because the A.D.Copier serica numbers ends at no.73, numbers above that are from the hand of Meydam.
For a long time this was not known, which explains the faults of both Marc Heiremans & Ricke.
Tomorrow I will try to get a copy of the catalogue page on the board, together with a photo of most of the models of these vases.
Willem Botterweg.
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I confess I didn't expect such a prompt and informative reply.
Thank you so much, Willem.
David
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I hope to be able to post some pictures in the next day or so showing the basics of how it is done.... :)
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Floris Meydam serica vases ca.1950 for the Glasfabriek Leerdam / the Netherlands >>
(http://www.botterweg.com/Portals/0/frontfoto/meydam_serica.jpg)
(http://www.botterweg.com/Portals/0/frontfoto/Meydam.jpg)
Willem Botterweg
Botterweg Auctions Amsterdam
Online auctionhouse http://www.botterweg.com (http://www.botterweg.com)
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That is fantastic information. Thank you so much!
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Willem:
Your help is much appreciated. And many thanks to Ivo and Gareth as well.
David
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Willem,
Thanks very much, and it was interesting to get dates on the bits I have (three from this set, the green and the two black in the middle) - thanks again
Gareth
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http://www.adamaaronson.com/display.php?navID=53
The images in this link may help to illustrate the process of trapping bubbles described above.
Accompanying text will be added shortly.... ;)