Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Germany => Topic started by: astrid on September 08, 2010, 03:33:12 PM

Title: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther. ID= Georgshütte / Boffzen
Post by: astrid on September 08, 2010, 03:33:12 PM
I've seen this blue vase (first picture) described as Skrufs, Lars Hellsten designer, a few times, so it wasn't high on my list to confirm, but recently Dirk cast some reasonable doubt on that by remarking it looked a lot like some pressed Walther vases.

I've actually acquired one of the similar Walthers (second picture, clearly labeled as Walther), so I could compare a bit. While I agree the idea of the blue seems similar, I also see differences. The size and the general shape are different, and the finish is quite different (for instance, while they both have a square rim, the Walther rim is flat, while the blue rim is not. Also, the Walther has pressed lines on the side that are more pronounced and different than the blue, whose press marks are very vague.

However, I think it's a good opportunity to ask for a few that are a bit more at home with Skrufs how well documented the blue is as a Skrufs vase?

I have more detailed photographs of the rim and the base available if anyone thinks that would make it easier.

Astrid

Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 08, 2010, 05:12:32 PM
Sorry about being pedantic but it is Skruf not Skrufs. http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-11786

I would be surprised if the blue one was made by Skruf, everything I have seen that they made seemed to be of better quality than your vase. Can you post the photos showing the rim and base please?

John
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: astrid on September 08, 2010, 06:28:13 PM
It appears I forgot to take a base shot at the time I made pictures of the blue vase... this is what I currently have. It's dark over here now, so I can't take additional pictures at the moment.

I'm sure quality is an issue, but I've seen high quality Walther pressed crystal as well that looked a lot better than the purple vase, so the fact that a factory made good quality pieces doesn't exclude them from also having lower quality ranges. Don't know of course if Skruf (sorry about the name) had several different quality lines like Walther.

Astrid

Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 08, 2010, 08:34:34 PM
At first I thought it was quite roughly made, now I am not so sure.

There is one for sale on ebay, scroll down for a photo of the base: http://cgi.ebay.nl/Retro-Art-Glass-Vase-by-Lars-Helsten-for-Skruf-Sweden-/290463226447?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item43a0f51a4f

John
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: astrid on September 08, 2010, 08:49:49 PM
Yes, the one on ebay is the same one (and another one attributed to Skruf - Lars Hellsten I notice). The Walther one is in my opinion more roughly made than the blue one. The blue one is pressed glass, not crystal, but the details are not bad at all.

Given that so many people give the same attribution, I was wondering if it was mentioned in a glass book?

Astrid
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 08, 2010, 09:07:16 PM
It's not in any of the books I have here but you are in good company, one author uses Skrufs instead of Skruf.

No luck finding one by googling and when I tried searching images one of those presented was one of my own photos from GlassGallery. ::)

John
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: astrid on September 09, 2010, 04:34:44 AM
I'm quite sure I've seen 4 or 5 different attributions to Skruf, Lars Hellsten (but I don't know of course now independent these were). The first one I can remember was at the Whitefriars site in the category 'it's not Whitefriars'. I haven't seen this particular vase attributed to anyone else so far.

And I've seen the same name attached to other pieces in what is obviously the same series by sellers (like here: http://antiek-kunst.marktplaats.nl/antiek-glas-en-kristal/370231929-lars-hellsten-skruf-zweden-vaas-blauw.html (http://antiek-kunst.marktplaats.nl/antiek-glas-en-kristal/370231929-lars-hellsten-skruf-zweden-vaas-blauw.html).

The reason why I'm hesitant about attributing it to Walther is also that Walther usually puts paper labels on the glass from that period, so if it was a Walther vase, a few labeled ones would have turned up by now and I would have expected to find conflicting attributions online for both Skruf and Walther, as happened with the Walther solifleurs that were described in at least one book as Pukeberg - I still find a mix of Walther and Pukeberg attributions for those. But I've never seen a different attribution for this blue vase so far.

I just want to make sure I'm not proclaiming it to be Skruf if it isn't and that way spreading the wrong word...

Astrid
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 09, 2010, 08:33:31 AM
The mistaken identities section of 'is it Whitefriars?' (on Whitefriars.com) is not to be trusted. Attributions there often need to be taken with a pinch of salt, some are quite laughable but in their defence, may reflect the state of knowledge at the time.

You can always contact a seller and ask them about their attributions and what evidence they have for them. By all means think of it as possibly Skruf, without some good evidence though, 'looking similar too' or X, Y or Z said so, is not enough. The internet enables all of us to quickly and easily propagate information, whether it is right or wrong. These little vases/pots are a classic example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sklo-Union-Glass-Lens-Vase-Frantisek-Vizner-1960s-/250694197891?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item3a5e89e283

They were made in Japan in various colours (I have seen several with made in Japan labels on them, they are well documented on this board too), this sellers description goes a little further, it appears they are now part of the 'Lens' range. ::) How many sellers will copy that if it sells for a good price?

For what it's worth (not a lot) I don't think your blue vase 'looks like' Skruf' but I would be happy to be proved wrong.

John

Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 09, 2010, 12:43:38 PM
Quote
The mistaken identities section of 'is it Whitefriars?' (on Whitefriars.com) is not to be trusted. Attributions there often need to be taken with a pinch of salt, some are quite laughable but in their defence, may reflect the state of knowledge at the time.

You are right...........I was trawling through recently and found some horrendous mis attributions.  Also some photos of items do not match up with the item under discussion which I think occurred when the site was badly hacked a few years go.

As I can edit conclusions in that particular area, I do from time to time have a session of attempting to put things right.

I can't change the photos but I can add new comments and conclusions which is better than nothing.  So if you come across any which need "tidying" up, do email me with the link and I'll try put it right .
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: Ivo on September 09, 2010, 03:01:12 PM
I would sooner attribute your blue vase to Oberglas than to a quality maker like Skruf - or even Walther. :ooh:
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 09, 2010, 05:09:41 PM
Emmi, next time I have a nose around mistaken identities I will let you know if I spot any that need updating.

John
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: Paul S. on September 09, 2010, 05:23:01 PM
quote yesterday from 'glassobsessed'........'Sorry about being pedantic but it is Skruf not Skrufs'.........John, as a beginner please do put me right, but should it not be 'Gullaskruf'....I though that Skrufs was a show for canines. :)   thanks   Paul S.
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on September 09, 2010, 05:32:32 PM
Two different companies Paul.

John
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: Paul S. on September 09, 2010, 06:55:01 PM
thanks John - appreciate the education. :) - and both Swedish too!   However, I think I might also have fallen foul of putting the 's' at the end.    I see that Ivo's book give the name with an 's' in the subject heading, and the logo can apparently genuinely be 'Skrufs Kristall' for some pieces. :)
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: astrid on September 09, 2010, 09:36:45 PM
I understand the problem with the Whitefriars forum, and I'm quite willing to put the Skruf ID behind me and accept it as Walther, Oberglas or whatever else - but I need a bit more to justify a different name.

And that is where I run into trouble in my research - the Skruf - Lars Hellsten ID is really, really widespread on the internet. The vase or series is common enough for me to find lots of times, but always attached with this exact same attribution. I've seen it on forums and with very different sellers in different countries. Yes, I see a lot of weird attributions and mistaken identities with lots of glass - but usually that is a lone seller making up a name that would sell better. Sometimes there is a good base for the mistake as vases that look very similar. And sometimes a wrong attribution in a book causes the problem.

I've tried the names you suggest - but I'm not finding my vase. And when I find my vase, Lars and Skruf are there... I really wish someone here would know what the source of this particular attribution is. For it to be so unanimously, it has to be some sort of usually reputable source, like a book.

And I repeat about the quality that is repeatedly being bashed now - it's not a bad quality vase in my opinion. Yes, it's pressed glass, no it's not crystal, but the detail of the pattern is pretty good, and I've seen a lot, lot worse in pressed coloured glass. I consider it to be of higher quality than the Walther vase I've included for comparison.

Astrid
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 09, 2010, 09:44:33 PM
Quote
Emmi, next time I have a nose around mistaken identities I will let you know if I spot any that need updating.

Thanks John.  I usually come across them when I am hunting for something, then have a little trawl to update what I can at that time...........but there are quite literally thousands in that data base, and in the main the info is good, very small percentage is innaccurate for one reason or another.
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: px on September 10, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
thanks John - appreciate the education. :) - and both Swedish too!   However, I think I might also have fallen foul of putting the 's' at the end.    I see that Ivo's book give the name with an 's' in the subject heading, and the logo can apparently genuinely be 'Skrufs Kristall' for some pieces. :)

Without knowing much like anything of Swedish glass companies I would, however, suspect that saying "Skrufs" and "Skruf" is like saying "Riihimäen" or "Riihimäki". i.e. both "correct" then, in the same way, at least in spoken language.

The company called Skrufs Glasbruk (Skrufs glassworks) is situated in a village called "Skruv". Their logo says "Skruf".
Gullaskrufs Glasbruk was situated in "Gullaskruv"
(Riihimäen Lasi was in Riihimäki)
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 10, 2010, 08:24:06 AM
Quote from wikipedia
Quote
the genitive [aka possessive] is formed by adding -s to the end of a word. This -s genitive functions more like a clitic  than a proper case and is nearly identical to the possessive suffix used in English. Note, however, that in Swedish this genitive s is appended directly to the word and must not be preceded by an apostrophe.
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: Paul S. on September 10, 2010, 01:26:55 PM
that's easy for you to say Christine :).....but what does it mean :)
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: rocco on May 17, 2013, 06:23:02 PM
Any new thoughts on this vase? - Skruf, Walther, Oberglas,...?

I guess Oberglas is still a contender, but to date I have not seen any of their pressed glass in this dark blue, and neither this vase in any other colour...

Michael
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: dirk. on March 19, 2021, 04:38:41 PM
Hi all,
I was so surprised to finally find the answer, I thought I should share it here.
Obviously it's Georgshütte / Boffzen. There's a newspaper article here with one picture actually showing the vase alongside with other Georgshütte designs.
In the third picture a catalogue page can be seen stuck to the wall behind a tall blue vase with the same surface structure and similar shaped neck.
Some riddles take years I've learned here...
I can't imagine the mis-attribution will ever vanish though.

https://www.nw.de/lokal/kreis_hoexter/boffzen/22332035_Glasmuseum-Boffzen-soll-sich-verkleinern.html

Cheers
Dirk
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: glassobsessed on March 19, 2021, 04:50:24 PM
Very good spot Dirk, that was not easy to see.
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: flying free on March 19, 2021, 07:03:39 PM
That's an amazing find!  Thanks Dirk :)

I'm sure there's another shape with that pattern on somewhere - a zig zag type shape vase maybe?
Might that also be Georgshütte?  Must go and do a search to see if I've remembered that correctly.


m
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: rocco on March 19, 2021, 08:18:29 PM
Great discovery, Dirk!
It's so long ago that I even forgot that I own one of these vases (and contributed to this thread) ;)

Michael
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: dirk. on April 01, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Cheers...
like always with this kind of glass, you find it while browsing for something else...
 ;D

Not sure which zig zag shape you mean, m?
Title: Re: Blue pressed glass vase - Skrufs or Walther
Post by: flying free on April 01, 2021, 05:21:11 PM
No, I'm not sure what I've remembered either now.  I looked when you first posted but couldn't find anything  :)  It'll pop up at some point and be something else entirely of course  ::)