Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on February 07, 2014, 01:33:58 PM
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Does anyone have a genuine reference image for what this looked like please?
I'm asking because I've seen this pattern described here http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/guidepages/estoz1.html
as:
'The 1930's saw the introduction of Tortoiseshell, Arboresque (a surface treatment of trailed 'uncontrolled' colours, typically jade and rose).'
but, there seems to be some confusion on the web. This one
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5715196
says:
'Stevens & Williams made a design pattern called ARBORESQUE in the 1930's that was made in 4 different colors. This has to be the most popular, vaseline glass, with a layer of white glass over the top. This was accomplished by a gather of vaseline glass, followed by a layer of white glass, and then through the expert of a true glassmaster, the maker was able to give it a faux crackle glass appearance without it truly being crackle glass. The metalwork is original to the piece and the original cover is even there! The metalwork is not marked.'
and
' similar pattern/design shown in DECORATIVE VICTORIAN GLASS, by Cyril Manley, copyright 1981 by Ward Lock Limited and Manley. color photo #285 -- part of a collection of art glass to be sold live on eBayLiveAuctions on Oct 5th at 1pm, Andy & Rob Collection.'
The reference is Manley and I don't have that book. Can anyone check to see if it is the same decor please? Many thanks.
Subsequently I've found a couple of pieces like the white surface crackle above, described as Arboresque from Stevens and Williams.
I'm interested because I have found a particular piece in this decor, not described as S&W Arboresque, but which matches a piece I have in shape,that I also believe is Stevens and Williams.
So if the pattern is not Arboresque, does anyone know what it is please and also whether or not it was definitely made by Stevens and Williams.
Thank you
m
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That vaseline marmalade looks mightily like Kralik Soft Crackle.... Interesting as I bought what I think is a bit of Soft Crackle yesterday (not the two in the photo).
John
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it does, but I'm not sure it is - can't explain quite why though.
Also there are other pieces I've found with this treatment that I'm not sure are Kralik either. The piece I've found that is like one of my pieces is quite distinct and I would not have thought Kralik for it to be honest. Always the caveat that it could be, but currently I'm thinking not.
I'm wondering who made this crackle decoration though as the S&W books described Arboresque as per the description from Style and Design, so the Andy and Rob piece doesn't appear to be Arboresque - so who might have made it apart from Kralik making a white crackle version.
I have seen it described as Webb's as well. But again I had my doubts.
m
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I think I might have to cave in and get the Manley book.
m
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I have copy of Manley to hand, and item #285 appears on the bottom row of page 92. The piece is a shallow bowl with flared sides developing into a flattened rim, but the glass body certainly looks very similar to that shown in the liveauctioneers.com link.
The text in Manley reads:
“285. Another example of cracked surface, but no mystery who made it. Steven & Williams, in 4 colours, recorded as ‘Arboresque’ in 1930. Crystal over cracked iridescent surface. 27.9cm (11 in) diameter.”
If you contact me direct by email using the facility alongside this post I will see if I can email a copy of the photo to you for your own personal use.
Fred.
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Fred, I'm very grateful and will do.
So,the question is then, is it Arboresque from Stevens and Williams?
'Arboresque (a surface treatment of trailed 'uncontrolled' colours, typically jade and rose' from Style and Design site. And that description in the Stevens and Williams book The Crystal Years is
'This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930's and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'
That white over uranium yellow green color crackle doesn't 'seem' to me to represent what the description is... does it? :-\
I've attached a pic of a small pot I had a while ago in a similar decor. I would not have described it as trailed uncontrolled colours (obviously not jade and rose of course). It was yellow glass with a white overlay that had been dipped to crackle and then blown out a bit to widen the crackle veins between the white patches, at least as far as I could see.
m
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going back to John's point, I've looked again at the piece that looks like mine and I've changed my mind. I think it IS possible it could be Kralik or Bohemian i.e. there's nothing about it that would say it could not be Bohemian.
So it is possible that only Kralik made this white over coloured glass crackle?
Or has anyone seen anything that might id them as English or another maker?
I will try and find the information that led to these white overlay crackle pieces being id'd as 'Soft crackle Kralik' and link it.
m
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as I said in the last post
this is some information that shows a vase id'd as 'soft crackle Kralik'
https://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/kralik-1a--id-by-shape
there is a hyacinth vase on the far right top row here that has the white crackle
and a yellow vase in the top row that I think might have been on the board here (I'll try and find it)
http://www.kralik-glass.com/kralikcracklearray.html
this one is similar to that yellow one though perhaps not the same piece- http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46923.msg263927.html#msg263927
m
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My eye 'sees' the pieces with white crackle on the Kralik-glass.com site as different to the white on my little pot. The pieces on the site look as though the white layer is much flatter, smoother than that on my pot or on the Andy and Rob piece through Live Auctioneers.
Would that make a difference enough for some to possibly be a different maker? or is it just that some are smoother than others perhaps?
I'm still very confused about the Manley description of what is Arboresque v the Stevens and Williams book though. They seem to be two completely different descriptions to me.
m
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Photo of a piece described as 'Arboresque' under the Stevens and Williams heading at
http://www.vaselineglass.org/FACTORY.HTML
Fred.
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thank you Fred! :)
But that looks nothing like the description of Arboresque in The Crystal Years does it?
'This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930's and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'
Dave's vase appears to be an internal transparent base (of yellow ? ) then the white patches then cased in yellow if I can see it correctly (not saying it is, but the technique reminds me of the description of a Harrach decor called Malachite which has white patches in between two layers of glass.)
m
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Thanks so much Fred :)
ok, having seen the pics in Manley I can only try and describe the bowl:
The bowl looks a bit like this rainbow bowl (see link) in shape only when you look at the tilted from the top photos. But it doesn't seem to have the ribs on it and I can't see whether it is as deep as the rainbow or as squared off in profile of the base and sides of the bowl. So, that's the best description I can give of the shape.
It has a firepolished rim that flares out like the rainbow bowl and has a large polished pontil mark. The crackle on it looks peachy coloured and looks closest in type (I 'think' hard to tell precisely) to that on my yellow pot basically. It is that peachy crackle over a clear base glass.
I would say it definitely 'possibly' could be English. And 'possibly' could be S&W given the large polished pontil mark, firepolished rim and what of the shape I can see.
But it doesn't match the description in The Crystal Years of 'Arboresque' in my opinion. And it doesn't look anything like the one on The Vaseline glass link Fred gave, again in my opinion.
Adding this one for reference to try and convey the shape of the one in Manley - It's the second bowl down on the page - please look at the tilted from top images only as those two are really the closest match to what is in Manley.
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/british_glass/stevenswilliams_glass/stevenswilliamsglass_home.html
So something is strange - either the Manley description is wrong, or the description in The Crystal Years is wrong as far as I can tell?
or am I wrong?
The Manley picture does not as far as I can tell, match The Crystal Years description of the technique.
If the Manley one is wrong and it's not Arboresque, what is it and who might have made it? Is it a Stevens and Williams piece?
Or is the description in The Crystal Years wrong?
If the description in The Crystal Years is right, then I am still looking for an example of Arboresque:
.. a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles
m
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Surely, the bowl in the "20thcentury" site fits the description from The Crystal Years ... to my eyes, it is "jade and rose" and the rose colour seems to have been applied as a trailing over the jade base before working to final shape and size.
And yes, I think the shape of that jade & rose bowl is the same as in Manley #285 and that the description in Manley ("cracked surface") does not fit with a "trailed colour" technique.
I agree that a true identification (and image?) of Stevens & Williams "arboresque" [ * ] is needed in order to progress this.
[ * ] Edited to correct the spelling (see m's comment in the next post)
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:o did you hit the nail on the head Kev? Is what we call Rainbow actually what is really Arboresque?
btw when you said Arabesque in your last sentence did you really mean to type Arboresque ?
edited to add - I 've seen your edit above and am off to hit the books and search button to see if this 'might' be Arboresque.
And if that bowl (Rainbow) on 20th century is Arboresque, what is the one in Manley?
Did I understand your post correctly? hope I'm not confusing things here :-[
m
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For confirmation on Manley's descriptions ...
Item #285 is stated as: "Another example of cracked surface ..."
Item #282 is stated as: "This, like 280, is another example of cracked surface decoration ..."
Item #280 is stated as: "To get this effect on a self-coloured article ..."
So, the item #280 piece is the start for the "cracked surface" decor. The description for that item is quite lengthy but includes ... All the glass-blower had to do was mark, with some pressure, the outer casing with a sharp piece of metal before the article was blown to full size.
That description shows that Manley did not think it was the type of "crackled decor" as mentioned earlier in this thread. And, presumably, he thought that items #282 and #285 were formed in the same way, although his descriptions leave room for doubt. For example, he did not explicitly state that he thought #285 "cracked surface" was made in the same way, just that it was "another example of cracked surface".
And since I am now in "m" mode (trying to get to the facts beyond the suppositions) I will also add ...
Manley's item #282 actually had as its start to the description: This, like 280, is another example of cracked surface decoration, but so elaborate that I hesitate to name the manufacturer. ...
In his earlier book for the American audience (Collectible Glass Book 4, British Glass 1968, second printing 1978) the same item was shown with a description starting: "An elaborate dish, even for Boulton & Mills ...". This clearly shows that Manley was not so rigid in his thoughts and attributions and some people might think. Somewhere between 1978 and 1981, new information caused him to alter his views on that item.
But back to the present ... what was the real "S & W arboresque" technique?
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Just to add a couple of other names to the white crackle effect over a colour, there is WMF, Loetz and Monart.
Although the Monart normally has either a red undercolour or even more scarce, a pale-ish blue. (not baby or powder blue, darker than those.)
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Thank you Sue :) good to add names to the list.
Kev, I agree, from what you've said it demonstrates that Manley was working with very little information sharing to hand, compared to that which we have today - I need to get the book definitely really though. At least then I can see what is being referred to.
.... I think we might have found 'Arboresque' I really do. This is so exciting (caveat ... disappointing if it doesn't turn out to be It though ;D )
Just to mention in case it comes in useful in this debate - CH 20th century British Glass page 151 says 'The brand name "Royal Brierley Crystal"was adopted by Stevens and Williams in the 1920s who saw their glass as a royal product.'
Currently checking books as I type.
So people don't have to keep going back to check details, I'm re-adding this description of the decor 'Arboresque' found in the book
THE CRYSTAL YEARS
A tribute to the Skills and Artistry of
STEVENS & WILLIAMS
ROYAL BRIERLEY CRYSTAL
by R. S. Williams-Thomas
page 23
'Arboresque - This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'
There is no mention of a decor called 'Rainbow' in The Crystal Years that I can find. (Open to correction)
And nothing I can find in 20th Century British Glass (Charles Hajdamach) (open to correction)
m
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Kev, do you or anyone else reading this thread, own British Glass Between The Wars - Dodsworth?
Bernard mentions (please note this quote from Bernard dates to 2007 so information may have moved on since then, but I am just using it to verify a reference) on another thread discussing Stevens and Williams rainbow vases, a reference here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42704.msg237570.html#msg237570
in this part of the thread above
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,12744.msg85262.html#msg85262
Bernard says:
' 'Quote
‘... Popularly dated to the late 1930s, although I've seen no evidence to substantiate this. ...'
Ronnie & Nigel — Correction, as I have seen evidence. Dodsworth quotes a 1938 pattern number for the example illustrated in BGbtW. As this is a top of the range luxury example with cut windows, it seems reasonable to deduce that Rainbow had been around for a while, but, as always, by how long? — six months, a decade — who can tell?’ '
This could be a piece to which Bernard refers - this particular one was on sale via 'Wooley and Wallis and references literature as above page 47 plate 335 (for reference in case the link disappears, this is a 'rainbow' decor vase taller than wide with vertical blue and green stripes and with large circular lenses or windows cut around the top of the vase below the rim)
http://www.invaluable.com/catalog/viewLot.cfm?afRedir=true&lotRef=bd80d327b2&scp=c&ri=626
Wooley and Wallis describe it as
'A Stevens & Williams rainbow glass vase' (note that the word rainbow is in lower case and not bold or Italics, so I don't know if it really denotes a 'decor') - unfortunately they do not say what was said in the BGbtW descriptor.
I have found a reference dated 1999 - In Miller's Antiques Price Guide 1999 page 494 there is a rainbow effect vase in what appears to be blue, amber and green (terrible photo for a colour reference) and the caption says ' A Stevens & Williams 'Rainbow' vase, c1930, 6in (15cm) high.
However, having been through the Gorgeous Glass site (Broadfield House collection) I cannot see, nor can I find under a reference link, any pieces named as Arboresque or Rainbow or Rainbow Ware that match what we are describing as rainbow from Stevens and Williams (open to correction)
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ah well .... short lived moment of excitement there possibly ;)
Not in the index and couldn't find it on first look through but have now found the BGbtW reference in CH British Glass page 143 .
There are two vases pictured, the first difficult to describe but doesn't look anything like the second apart from shape - the second looks like the one in the Wooley and Wallis link.
Caption reads
'Plate 296 Vases by Stevens and Williams from 1938. Left: the pattern for this vase appears in the Stevens and Williams pattern books at number 68325, dated 1 June 1938, with the annotated details "Rainbow/Light Blue & Ruby on Auburn cased inside Crystal outside'. The cost of making and cutting the vase was 45s. (£2.25p). Right: the vase appears in the pattern books at number 68037, dated 18 March 1938, with the annotation 'Light Blue & Green Rainbow Cased Inside' and '8 round' referring to the number of circular hollows around the shoulder. The cost of making the vase was 28s. (£1.40p). Heights left to right: 9 3/4in. (24.7cm), 9 3/4in. (24.7cm).'
It's strange that this Rainbow range is not mentioned in The Crystal Years but I have noticed there are two more ranges referenced in CH 20th Century British Glass that are also not in The Crystal Years.
So possibly still looking for an image example of Arboresque :) However...
One last trawl of images on Gorgeous Glass and a different search request threw up this
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1019/
An image of a 'Rainbow' glass vase as we know it ... but not described as such
Summary: Vase decorated with pink and green spiral bands
Description: Vase, clear glass applied with green and pink spiral bands, bucket shape with vertical rib moulding, clear cased.
Production date given as c.1947. No mention of it being called Rainbow.
I haven't forgotten about the crackle bowl in Manley - a question of whodunnit for another thread perhaps?
m
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I've just done a double check of known ranges for Stevens and Williams in the Broadfield House Museum collection on Gorgeous Glass, to see how they are listed.
Examples such as Latticino, Osiris, Caerleon, Silveria, Abbey Glass, Satin Air Trap, Tapestry Glass, Moresque Air Trap, Moss Agate, Fibrilose Design are all given their range name under ' Object Name' e.g 'Object Name: Fibrilose Design'
However the rainbow type decor vase is just named as 'Object Name: Stevens and Williams Vase'
That vase is also listed as 'Production Period: Post War (1945-1959)'
The description as per post above.
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1019/
I have read all the threads on this board that pertain to this decor and also Nigel's site where some information is given and the range is referred to as Rainbow Ware
The piece I referred to in the GG collection is dated c.1947. The one in Charles Hajdamach's 20th C BG is dated to 1938. They are two different vases, but appear to me (open to correction) to be part of the same 'Decor' range.
According to The Crystal Years, Arboresque was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s.
We need some clarification now as to whether 'Rainbow' was a nominated range name in the pattern books. This is not clear from CH caption reference on page 143 20th CBG, because most of the words in the pattern description for each of the two vases start with capital letters. And even the word 'inside' is spelt with a capital on the descriptor of the second vase but not with a capital on the first vase iyswim? So there is no way of knowing or even inferring from the way the descriptor is written, whether the word denotes a specific 'Decor Range'.
Ever hopeful this could still be Arboresque :)
m
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m, I'm following this thread, can't add much - looking at the word Arboresque - 'arbor' latin for tree and 'esque' meaning resembles, in the style of.
I'm looking in Manley at the page you mention and the soft open crackle is certainly tree bark like which would sit well with that breakdown of the word
.....but then another definition of 'arbor' is an axle or spindle on which something revolves - which could relate to the SW rainbow stripes
so I'm still confused ??? I would have thought that such a specific word would relate to the style or pattern of the range?
I'm going through 'Fredrick Carder: portrait of a glassmaker' at the moment. not found a reference to Arboresque yet (but there is a reference to a mat-su-no-ke style vase designed by Carder in 1880 lol)
I hope you get to the bottom of this one soon
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How about this ?
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/443393525785091206/
Is it Stevens and Williams ?
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Mel, I thought similar (re trees) and, from the description, the picture I had in my head was of something like 'fibrilose' but with more of the trailing
like this link (looking at the decor trailing rather than the shape)
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST358/
I hope Nigel can confirm whether Rainbow is an actual decor in the pattern books and has nothing to do with Arboresque.
Leaving us still looking for an image of Arboresque though.
Baked Beans - mmm, well, I don't know for sure but it doesn't match the description in the Crystal Years. I think that one could be one of those cases where the crackle picture and description in Manley has translated into 'anything with crackle is Arboresque'. But I could be wrong.
m
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gorgeous-stevens-williams-arboresque-vase-no
This showed up as 'snow white Arboresque'
It looks the same as the vase under 280 in Manley as far as I can see (open to correction, but the foot and rim and crackle effect practically look as though it's actually the same vase.) The only difference is the colour where this one is clearly white over pink, but in Manley all the pieces look peach in my pictures.
Actually, I'm beginning to wonder about the colour photography in the Manley book as well. If this is the same vase and I believe it is (very distinctive rim shape and a round bun foot, quite difficult to find an exact match to that really), then the vase in no 280 in Manley is possibly white over pink. Which begs the question, is the bowl we are discussing under no 285, actually white crackle not peachy pink as I am seeing it? I suppose it is possible all three of the crackle pieces he used were peach coloured.
Edited to add: Looking again at the photograph, I think item 280 is white crackle over deep pink transparent glass, but the lighting is making it look peach all over, I think item 282 is clear with a white crackle possibly but has a deep pink rim on it, and I think item 285 is possibly pink (not peach) crackle over transparent glass, although again it could be the lighting and it could be white over pink transparent glass.
Also, is it possible that Manley mistook the process and that neither this vase where he says ' All the glass-blower had to do was mark, with some pressure, the outer casing with a sharp piece of metal before the article was blown to full size.' or any of the vases were made by this process. But actually they were all cased over transparent glass and then the outer layer was crackled using cold water then blown out a little further to open the crackle out.
I am open to correction on all my observations ... for that is only what they are.
I have found a couple of pieces listed as 'Hobbs Snowstorm' - they seem to be white crackle over a deep pink transparent glass
(caveat - I have no idea at all about Hobbs Brockunier glass - this is just what they were listed as)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobbs-Brockunier-rubina-overshot-crackle-snowstorm-rose-bowl-rosebowl-glass-/221348719176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3389696a48&nma=true&si=tznYn5dbNwf63OpQ4XfOXtBb4KI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.rubylane.com/item/334026-074/1880s-Hobbs-Rubina-Bowl-Snowstorm
m
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Kev, do you or anyone else reading this thread, own British Glass Between The Wars - Dodsworth?
Yes, m, I have "BGBTW", and I can confirm some points ...
In your reply #17, you asked about S&W "rainbow" decor. Bernard's points relating the BGBTW illustrated item and the 1938 pattern number were correct. And yes, the vase in the auction link with the description referencing the BGBTW book is indeed the same pattern and the same colour (delicate blue and green fading into each other in a very rainbow-like way).
And, quoting from the BGBTW book, page 99, catalogue #335: Described in the Stevens and Williams Description Books as 'light blue and green rainbow cased inside.'
As for "arboresque" ...
BGBTW, page 99, catalogue #331, [sadly not illustrated] was a bowl in "... a style known as Arboresque, introduced in 1933". The description says: Clear glass, blown into an irregular patterned mould and sprayed with orange metallic salts.
That description of being sprayed with orange salts would fit well with the colouring of the bowl shown in Manley #285 (and #191 in the earlier Collectible Glass book). The photos in the later Manley book are probably ok for colour but many do have a rather dark appearance due to the shelving and background colour and general lighting. But looking closely at image #285 and especially #191 in the earlier book, the colour does show as a thin, "watery" orange with hints of greyish-blue (according to my colour reception). As I said, I think that fits with "sprayed with orange metallic salts".
So, if my thoughts are correct, maybe all of the four colours (as stated by Manley) for Arboresque were sprayed metallic salts. And maybe (as stated in BGBTW) all Arboresque was a mould-blown pattern.
And not only that, but perhaps the meaning of "arbor" in connection with this pattern, was "like tree bark" (such as with oak etc). That could make sense of why we have been thinking of "crackled surface decoration" and have not considered "mould blown".
If so, then I guess some / most / all of the white crackle over pink items referred to are simply not "arboresque". And that would also vindicate Manley in his later book. He only referred to Item #285 as "arboresque". Items #280 and #282 happened to be the first two of that small group for which he used the term "cracked surface decoration".
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This is a great thread you guys are amazing !
Do you think there could have been a typo error and the original reference to the word should have read arabesque which is a term used in the art world and is in my glass dictionary.... " in Islamic art, a flat decoration of intricate interlaced lines and bands and abstract ornaments adapted largely from classical sources "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_(Islamic_art)
Just a thought ???
Cheers, Mike.
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If so, then I guess some / most / all of the white crackle over pink items referred to are simply not "arboresque". And that would also vindicate Manley in his later book. He only referred to Item #285 as "arboresque". Items #280 and #282 happened to be the first two of that small group for which he used the term "cracked surface decoration".
Yes, this is something I noted down late last night - although the one on worthpoint m linked to is probably the same as #280 Manley only referred to #285 as being Arboresque and it is a much more open, delicate & gentile finish to my eye.
I tend to hesitate now where Manley is concerned but I can see how easily things can be misinterpreted or misquoted over time and become the norm
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Thank you :)
I will come back in more detail on the crackled pattern shown in Manley once I've had a chance to look again at the photos and digest your comments.
One thought -
(I find myself completely unable to work out how to do boxed quoted comments so apologies)
1)
Ref Kev's comment in his post just above (my underlining)
'Yes, m, I have "BGBTW", and I can confirm some points ...
In your reply #17, you asked about S&W "rainbow" decor. Bernard's points relating the BGBTW illustrated item and the 1938 pattern number were correct. And yes, the vase in the auction link with the description referencing the BGBTW book is indeed the same pattern and the same colour (delicate blue and green fading into each other in a very rainbow-like way).
And, quoting from the BGBTW book, page 99, catalogue #335:
Quote
Described in the Stevens and Williams Description Books as 'light blue and green rainbow cased inside.''
The use of all lower case in this sentence in the BGbtW book still leaves me unsure as to whether 'Rainbow' was a named range or just a descriptor of the 'rainbow' effect of the striped colours as they appeared to the eye. It's a better descriptor than using the word 'striped'. If it was a named range it should have appeared with a capital letter for the word I would have thought?
Also, IF it is the same vase, Hajdamach (see my post #18) has the caption as appearing in the pattern books as ' 'Light Blue & Green Rainbow Cased Inside' ' with capitals for all of it.
I'm not nit-picking - I genuinely haven't been able to find any reference anywhere to an actual Stevens and Williams range called 'Rainbow' in the pattern books. And the fact that Broadfield House have the vase denoted 'Object Name: Stevens and Williams Vase' rather than a range name as they do for other ranges, compounds the query.
m
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Observation on the missing possible 'Rainbow' range in The Crystal Years:
The Crystal Years was written by R.S. Williams-Thomas. It was published in 1983.
In the Foreword to the book
it says: '... Dr. Leonard S. Rakow, M.D. of New York City, is a famous collector and expert on Cameo Glass:
... . Now Lt. Col. R.S. Williams-Thomas who has helped to guide the destinies of the company for the past half century presents it's history ...'
'
This would mean the author of The Crystal Years had been there since 1933. He was born in 1914 so that would make him 19 in 1933.
By the time the rainbow striped green and blue vase was in the pattern book in 1938 he would have been 24.
According to CH British Glass Keith Murray was designing for the company between 1932 and 1939( ref page 155) and there is a design book that has his designs in. But within that book there are designs that have 'not KM' written next to them. Hajadamach says ' Most of these 'Not KM' designs were by Hubert Silvers Williams-Thomas, Reg Silvers Williams-Thomas and Harry Whitworth; ...'
The author of the Crystal Years was an active member of Stevens and Williams glass during the 1930s when these rainbow striped pieces were made. Is it conceivable that having mentioned, amongst earlier ranges, a range called 'Tortoiseshell' dating to the mid 1930s and a range called 'Arboresque' carried out in the early 1930s, that he simply forgot to mention what seems to have been fairly well produced range by comparison to say Caerleon for example (judging by the number of shapes and colours that have been found by board members) of rainbow striped vases called 'Rainbow'?
m
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To add to my post above, but to keep the information separate:
There are some other noticeable issues -
1) Charles Hajdamach 20thc BG (2009)
- page 109 mentions 'Abbey Glass' (March 1928) (plate 214 right hand for crackled version of)
- and a 'Mesh' vase and pattern (October 1929) (no picture shown)
- and a 'Bubbly' glass (plate 213 left hand)
None of which are mentioned in The Crystal Years.
Also Hajdamach on the same page in the same paragraph mentions
- an ' "Arboresque" range' introduced in 1933, but shows no picture.
He says' ... but by this date the fashion for these effects was waning and they disappear quickly from the company pattern books.'
He does not give a description of the decor for the Mesh or Arboresque ranges but does the describe Caerleon, Abbey and Bubbly ranges.
Why, given Manley had produced a piece of glass under Arboresque in a book dated to the early 1980's, and The Crystal Years (dated 1983) gave a description of the decor for Arboresque, would a description of Arboresque decor have been left out of CH 20thc British Glass I wonder?
I'll have to come back later on the crackle issue - got a report to write and not getting anything done fast at the mo ::)
m
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My comments on the discussion over ‘Arboresque’ descriptions:
Ref: Kev’s reply
‘As for "arboresque" ...
BGBTW, page 99, catalogue #331, [sadly not illustrated] was a bowl in "... a style known as Arboresque, introduced in 1933". The description says:
Quote
'Clear glass, blown into an irregular patterned mould and sprayed with orange metallic salts.’'
1) Manley’s book that featured a crackle bowl named as ‘Arboresque’ (#285) was dated 1981
- Manley’s description of ‘Arboresque’ was (my underlining)
‘“285. Another example of cracked surface, but no mystery who made it. Steven & Williams, in 4 colours, recorded as ‘Arboresque’ in 1930.
Crystal over cracked iridescent surface. 27.9cm (11 in) diameter.”’
- So Manley says ‘Arboresque’ was recorded in 1930.
- His description means it was cased glass over a crackled surface that had been iridised.
2) The Crystal Years was written 2 years later in 1983
– R.S. Stevens-Williams description of ‘Arboresque’ was
‘This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.’
- An error in this book? The description does not match that of Manley’s at all.
3) British Glass between the Wars was written in 1987
– Dodsworth’s description of ‘Arboresque’ was
‘Clear glass, blown into an irregular patterned mould and sprayed with orange metallic salts.’ And ‘ … in a style known as Arboresque, introduced in 1933’
His description seems to me to be possibly describing Manley’s bowl at least in the way it looks in the picture however:
- Dodsworth did not show a picture of ‘Arboresque’.
- His description does not match the description of The Crystal Years
- His description does not match Manley’s in technique
- His date (1933) does not tally with that stated in Manley (‘…recorded as ‘Arboresque’ in 1930)
Dodsworth must have known of the book ‘The Crystal Years’, but recorded a different description of the technique of ‘Arboresque’.
Dodsworth must have also known of the Manley book, but there is a date discrepancy between the two books for the pattern and the technique doesn’t match Manley’s desc.
Manley says it was recorded for 1930. Where?
Dodworth says it was introduced in 1933. Where is the source for that?
4) 20th Century British Glass (CH) was written in 2009
– Hajdamach gives no description of ‘Arboresque’ and shows no picture but says it was introduced in 1933.
Summary so far:
- Did Dodsworth find a different description of ‘Arboresque’ in the pattern books, hence he was able to date it to 1933?
- If he didn’t use Manley as a reference source, then in 1933 this pattern must be recorded with a description of the décor, in the pattern books.
- If Dodsworth did get it from the pattern books, where did Manley get his stated ‘recorded 1930’ date from?
- Hajdamach says it was introduced in 1933. Did he find it in the pattern books? If so, I wonder why is there no description of the technique used for the décor, or a description of the décor or a picture?
- If Dodsworth is correct then it must mean:
- the description of the technique in The Crystal Years is wrong.
- Manley got his ‘recorded 1930’ date wrong.
- Manley got his description of the technique wrong
- ‘Arboresque’ is not what we know as rainbow glass.
Re Kev’s further comments:
‘So, if my thoughts are correct, maybe all of the four colours (as stated by Manley) for Arboresque were sprayed metallic salts. And maybe (as stated in BGBTW) all Arboresque was a mould-blown pattern.’
- If this is the case then we are looking for iridescent single colour moulded crackle-patterned glass.
'And not only that, but perhaps the meaning of "arbor" in connection with this pattern, was "like tree bark" (such as with oak etc). That could make sense of why we have been thinking of "crackled surface decoration" and have not considered "mould blown".
yes, therefore the pattern could vary but would always be a mould blown version of a tree bark type pattern and always be iridescent
'If so, then I guess some / most / all of the white crackle over pink items referred to are simply not "arboresque". And that would also vindicate Manley in his later book. He only referred to Item #285 as "arboresque". Items #280 and #282 happened to be the first two of that small group for which he used the term "cracked surface decoration".'
- I feel Manley is vindicated anyway on that issue, if as you say, he only referred to the one item as ‘Arboresque’. The readers have chosen to ignore that the other two items were not denoted as such.
If it is commonly felt that Dodsworth was correct then:
Someone needs to contact Broadfield House museum and ask them to look up the pattern number in the 1933 area of the pattern book (or 'books' as it maybe - I'm confused as to whether there were two books running for the period 1932-1939 because they were recording Stevens and Williams patterns that had not been designed by Keith Murray, in the Keith Murray Pattern Book - source CH British Glass).
If he is correct, then:
a) Anyone with Manley needs to correct their issue updating the descriptor of technique and also the date of the pattern.
b) Anyone with The Crystal Years needs to correct their issue in the same way.
Which leaves us:
a) still trying to find a recorded date and description and name for the pieces we 'know' as rainbow vases/bowls.
b) hunting around to find single colour moulded tree-bark patterned pieces with an iridescent surface in any of 4 colours (which ones I don't know)
m
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just a possible observation on my comment above here
I think Manley could have been describing what the bowl looked like sat on the table as it were - ie smooth on the interior as you looked down on it, with the smooth glass laying over the crackle (cracked?) surface that was on the underneath(exterior) of the bowl.?
'1) Manley’s book that featured a crackle bowl named as ‘Arboresque’ (#285) was dated 1981
- Manley’s description of ‘Arboresque’ was (my underlining)
‘“285. Another example of cracked surface, but no mystery who made it. Steven & Williams, in 4 colours, recorded as ‘Arboresque’ in 1930.
Crystal over cracked iridescent surface. 27.9cm (11 in) diameter.”’
- So Manley says ‘Arboresque’ was recorded in 1930.
- His description means it was cased glass over a crackled surface that had been iridised.'
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following my two long posts immediately above ::)
I've still got an issue with the description of how this crackle glass was made.
So was it one gob of glass, blown into a mould that had a 'crackle patch' pattern on it, the mould complete with out-standing ridges all around the crackle patches on the inside of the mould, to create the crackle type pattern of patches left on the glass? It must have made it hard work removing that from the mould.
So then it was iridised, then blown out again to enlarge the crackle in order to leave the fissures between the pattern showing as clear glass? how would they ensure the iridescence didn't creep into the fissures?
OTOH If they blew it out to enlarge the fissures before iridising, then wouldn't the iridescence spray in the fissures as well making the glass completely peach iridescence?
Manley's pic is very hard to judge but the fissures look clear to me if you look at the bottom of the pic, on the exterior wall.
m
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And I am still not sure whether "arboresque", would have referred to the "cracked surface", or to the colour type "iridescent" or both of those together.
I have (seemingly VERY quickly!!) investigated Manley's term "cracked surface". I wondered if that was always interchangeable with our own often-used term "crackled". Maybe it is ...
Unfortunately, his Glossary at the beginning of the book does not cover "cracked" or "crackled" or "crizzled"!
The first examples of "cracked / crackled" I can find in Manley's 1981 book are actually described as "crizzled"! These are Items #119 and #120, two pieces described as "Stevens & Williams 'Moss Agate' ". Manley included in his description: "Note the crizzling, a common form of decoration, ... but the cracks have almost severed the vases before being sealed." (My italics) To me, this describes "crackled" glass - using cold water to make the cracks before reheating and blowing.
The next Manley examples of "cracked / crackled" decor are two Monart vases (Items #234 & #235). Manley called these: "mottled casing over white". And he added: ... before the final shaping, the outer case only is deeply marked with a piece of sharp metal (a nail will do) after which the blowing is continued ...
Again, that lines up with what I think most of us here would say was, "crackled, by dipping into cold water".
That then leads us to the first of references to the Manley term "cracked surface" (i.e. his Item #280 that we have referred to earlier). For that one, he again suggested "marking the surface with a sharp piece of metal".
His next reference to "cracked surface" was item #282, for which he said: "like 280 ... another example of cracked surface ...". Although for this one he followed up with: "... the opal casing having powdered opal marvered onto the surface ..." he added: "The cracked surface is made exactly as for 280" - meaning with the use of a piece of sharp metal.
For his Item #285 bowl, he only talked about the "cracked iridescent surface"; he did not say how he thought the cracks were made. But is seems very likely that he thought "as for 280".
So my conclusion is that all of Manley's' references to "cracked surface" imply his belief of the use of a "sharp piece of metal" for marking before blowing. And that perhaps his use of "crizzling" described what we would take to be "crackled with cold water".
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:o have we any references anywhere to crackle glass being made by
'... before the final shaping, the outer case only is deeply marked with a piece of sharp metal (a nail will do) after which the blowing is continued '
Is it possible Manley did not understand how crackle glass was made? or more pertinently have I missed a vital technique that was used in the making of crackle glass?
I've honestly never heard of this method. It sounds pretty hard work to me - why use as a sharp nail (on a boiling hot gob of glass? how would you get near enough to it with a nail without burning yourself?) presumably to 'score' the surface in a nice pattern, when for hundreds of years glass makers have sprayed or dipped the piece into cold water and then blown it out further to make the same pattern?
Dodsworth does state it is blown into an irregularly patterned mold and I don't understand that description either - at least not in the context of looking at Manley's bowl. It doesn't match up (to me - again open to correction). And I am open to correction n all my thoughts, as what I know about glassblowing can be written on a stamp (or on the paperweight I made last week ;D )
Manley's 'crizzle' effect is actually the crackled glass that has not been blown out further I think. I have this on a Leveille vase where the internal layer is smooth then the exterior of that layer was sprayed or dipped to crizzle it into crackles all over that don't have fissures, then it is cased again, then cased in coloured glass, then cased again :o - tis a mighty heavy piece of glass.
I would call this tight crackle but crizzle is a good description of the effect. Except that crizzled often refers to glass that has gone like this because of poor mix in the batch somehow I think. I mean in centuries old glass.
To reference some crackle points -
Here are some Stevens and Williams crackle glass pieces from the Broadfield House collection
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST390/ (described as crackled with water) - I'd call this tight crackle, i.e. not blown out further)
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH2757/ This is Abbey Glass the crackled version. The outer layer has been crackled and blown out further to open the fissures between the crackles
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST406/ This is Moss Agate - done in the way I described my Leveille piece above I believe. It has been cased over the fine crackle so has a smooth outer surface.
There do not appear to be any pieces I could find that look like the Manley bowl I'm afraid.
However, to me, the Manley bowl looks like my little yellow vase I posted earlier with the crackled white exterior. i.e. a translucent glass outer that has been crackled, over a clear glass interior layer.
Re:
The ' opal' casing comment .... that denotes white glass I would suggest?
So could I be right that at least one of those pieces in the Manley book is cased in white and then crackled?
m
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The piece that Manley describes as with opal having been scored with metal to form the crackle, is the same one #280 that I referenced earlier as thinking it was this piece here (see link below). Now we know it had opal on it, I think this vase matches even more - the foot, the rim shape, the white (opal?) surface that is crackled. And now I'm even more suspicious about the colour in the photographs in Manley to be honest.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gorgeous-stevens-williams-arboresque-vase-no
I'm very curious now as to where the Dodsworth description of 'Arboresque' came from.
I can't think of a crackle bowl blown into a crackle patterned mold to form the crackle surface pattern, that is iridescent. And I can't find any to reference, although that means nothing. Just curious to see if I could find one.
btw,
How many colours do the Stevens and Williams rainbow vases come in do we know?
I know there was discussion on here on a thread about two and three colour vases, but I just wondered how many colours for the stripes might be known.
off hand I can think of pink blue and green. Was there an amber I wonder? that would make 4 colours.
edited later to add - yes 'Auburn' was used (ref CH 20th Century British Glass page 143 ) where the vase was Light Blue & Ruby on Auburn cased.
So that makes 4 colours so far.
Just wondering.
m
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slightly off topic but thats the second reference to SW auburn I've come across today (the other being a ribbonette style jug id-ed as SW)
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I have to look the colour up Mel and see if I can find anything as on the one in the book it's very hard to see the 'Auburn' colour.
Re: rainbow - I've just come across this solifleur type vase cut glass striped, described as Stevens and Williams Rainbow dating to c.1890
http://www.antiquecolouredglass.info/Stevens%20&%20Williams%20Antique%20Glass.htm
So either the 'Rainbow' range ran for many, many years, or the term rainbow is sometimes used as a descriptor of the effect of the coloured stripes.
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The Item #280 in Manley (1981) does appear to be of the same shape as the one in the Worthpoint page (see above) and is definitely of the same height (5.5 inch).
However, the Worthpoint eBay vase has a very much more contrasting colouring - with both the white and pink in very bold shades. The Manley example is much more delicate in colouring, possibly due to much thinner layers of colour and a paler shade of pink.
Also, the Worthpoint item has more a "chunky" look to the surface with larger pieces of white and larger separation of most of those pieces. The Manley example has smaller pieces separated by a closer network of divisions. Even if the colours in Manley's book are not true, there is not the same contrast to the white and the pink (especially for the pink seen in the interior of the neck).
Very probably made by the same company (Manley stated Thomas Webb) and very similar techniques, but different items.
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From 2 posts above ...
So either the 'Rainbow' range ran for many, many years, or the term rainbow is sometimes used as a descriptor of the effect of the coloured stripes.
Or the dating in that site was incorrect. :)
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oh yes, also that (In my opinion it does look like it could have originated in the 30's - but I'm beginning to get slightly embarrassed that I'm questioning all these titles never mind other people's id's, believe it or not :) )
With regards your comment re that white over pink crackle vase - aha ... I wondered where the 'Webb' attribution had come from as I'd seen my little yellow vase identified as Webb.
I have another point though -
I'm just going back to The Crystal Years description of the 'Arboresque' range:
'This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930's and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles.'
Unless the author did put the wrong description next to 'Arboresque' (and would he really - is he the most likely person of all the authors and books quoted above, to get it wrong? Not saying he didn't but on balance he wouldn't have been my first port of call), I really do think these vases and bowl match his descriptor.
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/british_glass/stevenswilliams_glass/stevenswilliamsglass_home.html
Is it possible that, given Stevens and Williams were known for their immaculate threading and trailing, by comparison to those type of pieces, this trailing on these vases we know as rainbow would have been considered 'uneven' because it was not immaculately spaced and trailed, but rather freeform. I don't know what the author meant by 'a glasshouse effect' but I do wonder if he meant what we would consider today to be 'studio' type glass.
m
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m, all these unqualified "author-phrases" are very difficult to understand unless we have good examples to to see the effects and the variations.
I would caution against questioning too many things individually. Best to store up a few references for "extra info" and then prepare a summary query.
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ok :)
I don't have any more queries.
I'm hoping Nigel will see this thread and be able to offer a correction if necessary to the point about rainbow, and a definite on the date and description in the pattern books for Arboresque if he can.
m
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On Mel's off topic, Crystal Years describes auburn as a rich reddish amber used mainly for vases, bowls and stems
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This vase is described as Loetz (don't think it's signed though) but it does tick a few of the boxes above ......sorry if it's a red herring , I promise not to post any more ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loetz-Yellow-Iridescent-Bohemian-Czech-Vase-with-Flared-Crimped-Rim-8-high-/231147068840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d1705da8
Ta, Mike.
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Don't be sorry :) the more eyes the better.
I adapted the search word (as per misspell early in the thread) and funnily enough came upon this
Apparently a 'Rare Stevens and Williams Arabesque' ? (my underlining)
the crackle on it seems to have the little specks of grey in but pretty sure it's not iridescent.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Stevens-Williams-Arabesque-10-Compote-in-Blue-/390330803142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae18763c6
However, I do think the issue might be that we need to find out which decor is the right decor for the range 'Arboresque'. Your vase doesn't match the picture in Manley and whilst the comporte I've found seems to, it's not iridescent ... but most of all, I feel there is a query over whether or not we are looking for an iridescent crackle decor as in Manley, or a trailed decor often in pink or jade green but with no iridescence.
m
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Here is another one ...'arabesque' ...I really hope you can get to the bottom of this ..there is lots of confusion out there and it needs to be properly defined !!
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/164451823867265946/
You are doing such a great job here !
The reason I posted the link to the vase on ebay was that it is on clear glass, has green, worked trailing , some pink ,it's not uniform in shape and seems to have been sprayed could be 1930's perhaps ? ! I hope it helps to focus on what to look for... as you say :) Good luck ;D
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:-X is there a decor called Arabesque from Stevens and Williams?
I think best to stop here until we get a definite answer to what the decor is supposed to look like to be honest.
Mike, just to say also Loetz is most often not marked btw. I have no idea about that vase though as my knowledge of Loetz is extremely limited I'm afraid.
m
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LOL ;)
I did see a reference to some engraving on Stevens & Williams glass called Arabesque c1900's but that is all ! :D
I just wanted to show how much confusion there is in general about the term 'Arboresque' ;)
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Yes :) I agree re the confusion
and
according to their website, Broadfield House aren't taking any queries at the moment unfortunately.
I would like some information about Richardson's, Webb's, Stuart and now also Stevens and Williams. I wish I had constant access to the pattern books ;D
m
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With reference Mike's post just above here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55630.msg315647.html#msg315647
linking to a vase shown as Arabesque Stevens and Williams (I would describe the linked vase as Frilled (possibly trailed but could be clear pink glass showing above casing)rim, bright pink interior, cased in white and then with a crackle layer over it, applied feet)
I accidentally happened upon this one in Broadfield House Museum - it looks to be done in a similar way to the linked vase
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1093/
Description reads:
'Maker: possibly Stevens and Williams
Description: Bowl, interior of bowl pink glass cased with white, followed by a layer of clear glass, followed by crackled citron casing, with three applied leaf shape feet, rim with clear and white opalescent applied trail, known as ""arabesque"" by JF Wood'
The Broadfield House description is difficult to understand as pertains the word 'arabesque' because of the way the sentence is constructed. It could mean the rim with clear and white opalescent applied trail is known by JF Wood as 'arabesque'. It could mean the bowl is made by JF Wood?
But is a crackle piece and listed as possibly Stevens and Williams.
m
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You've pasted the wrong second link M
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I think that the crackled citron casing is very distinctive - in most other examples tendered as arbor / arab esque it has been an opaque white outer cased crackle hasn't it? Could this be key in getting to the bottom of the issue?
Still rueing the passing on of my Crystal Years, who was JF Wood? bet it says in there :-(
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oh darn it - thanks Christine ;D I'm going to have to go and find it again now - happened on it by accident.
phew - thankfully they key=worded 'arabesque'
corrected above and here it is
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1093/
it does actually have a good similarity with the one Mike linked to in terms of decor. I think the one linked to is also cased in clear? Certainly the pics look similar - perhaps that's what 'old clear' looks like cased over white maybe?
I'm not entirely sure how or whether these two bowls fit in to the case, but like Mel I do wonder whether there has been some confusion maybe?
Mel, I'll see if JF Wood is mentioned in there and get back to you.
m
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doesn't it say cased in clear then with an outer citron crackled layer? I'm seeing outer most citron crackle, presumably over clear over white (working in) in both GG and Mikes Pintrest pics?
Thanks m, be good to know now he's come up on the radar
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yes you're right, my brain was working on why it had been cased in clear and so forgot the citron.
Sorry Mel :)
ok, I can't seem to find JF Wood in the book The Crystal Years and I'm wondering if they say on that new link possibly Stevens and Williams or Boulton and Mills, that maybe that description note was referring to a JF Wood who worked for the museum perhaps?
I'll need to do a little searching ... but have to make dinner in a mo - eek, I get so distracted ;D
m
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http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/engraved-stevens-williams-hunt-goblet-250835879
This was sold as a Stevens and Willliams goblet with a Bill Swingewood lampwork in it. It is engraved (lovely , I've never seen anything like this before) and the engraving is signed J Wood.
Could JF Wood be one of the engravers at Stevens and Williams perhaps?
m
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The museum bowl I could go with as Stevens and Williams; the other looks much more Bohemian (Harrach?) despite the citron crackle IMHO
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I always find these things really difficult. For me, looking at them side by side, I honestly can't see any difference in the basic construction - they look to have both been done in the same way using the same 'stuff'and look to be from the same maker. I think lighting plays a big part as well as the design so it is difficult to tell e.g. I love the bowl on the GG site, but the shape of the one linked to leaves me cold.
However, I did notice on clicking through to the finished ebay listing for it, that it has a pinched in the middle rim and a beautifully polished pontil mark (veering to English), but then I noticed the rim shape which is a peculiar in out square crimp shape that I've had before (and is in Gulliver's no id), and didn't know where my piece had originated (veering towards now unsure - could be Boulton and Mills? or possibly Bohemian?).
Ebay link here with clickable pictures that enlarge to see the detail.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEVENS-AND-WILLIAMS-ARABESQUE-ART-GLASS-VASE-W-APPLIED-CLEAR-FEET-CLAM-SHELL-/251412524789?nma=true&si=tznYn5dbNwf63OpQ4XfOXtBb4KI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I think the person who is selling the bowl on ebay, found the bowl in Gorgeous Glass and put two and two together - a good find I think. I can see the connection and feel on balance I would think that they could possibly be from the same maker.
However, either way, as Mike mentioned earlier, is it possible that the name/description of 'arabesque' has got confused with Arboresque in some way? Looking at Manley's description I think it is possible, however looking at BGbtW Roger Dodsworth's description I don't think so ' - see quote from Kev below
'BGBTW, page 99, catalogue #331, [sadly not illustrated] was a bowl in "... a style known as Arboresque, introduced in 1933". The description says:
Quote
Clear glass, blown into an irregular patterned mould and sprayed with orange metallic salts.'
mmm, not a lot further forward unfortunately.
I don't suppose it's possible for the 'Glass Message Board' to send an 'official' request for enlightenment to the Broadfield House Museum is it?
m
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I have just trawled many Fieldings auctions and found 6 vases and bowls in blues and greens spirals (in the decor we would refer to as rainbow), some cut, including the one referenced in BGbtW Dodworth with the cut oval windows on it. It just so happens all with blue and green (jade green?), none with pink (rose?) and green (jade green?)
Without exception they are all called Stevens and Williams and referred to as 1930s,but not a single one is described as 'Rainbow' or 'rainbow' or 'Rainbow Ware' or rainbow in any shape or form.
I have to believe that if this was a formally identified range name then they would be.
In The Crystal Years the author lists various range names apparently in order of period designed.
So as follows:
Rose du Barry c.1888
Verre de Soie c.1886
Moss Agate no date in book but British Glass 1800-1914 gives it as c 1888
Alexandrite c1890
Dolce Relivo c.1890
Latticino no date given
Fibrillose c.1901
Silveria c.1900
Fleurissant c.1915
Vitrolux 1916
Tortoiseshell mid 1930s
Caerleon refers to 'In 1919..' because in 1919 the Lighting factory developed a new range in this decor. I don't 'think' it was called Caerleon at that point though on reading the description in CH British Glass 20th Century. I think Caerleon was a name given to this decor later on.
Arboresque Early 1930s
Arboresque falls at the end and is said to be early 1930s.
I think it's entirely possible that The Crystal Years description of 'Arboresque' being
'This was a treatment carried out in the early 1930s and used a glasshouse effect of trailed uneven coloured glass, mainly of jade green and rose, on to the surface of clear crystal articles'
refers to those vases we on the board call rainbow.
I can't see the crackle glass bowls that we've found, either those described as 'Arabesque' nor the one in Manley's book,nor the one I first linked to, nor this one that I've only just found that is from that same collection (the 'Andy and Rob Collection') as the one I first linked to
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5715223
particularly being a 1930s new design.
Neither do the two bowls found, nor the two from the 'Andy and Rob Collection, nor Manley's bowl 285, seem to particularly match the description given by Dodsworth or Manley for 'Arboresque' I don't think as from my point of view none are iridescent:
Manley - 'Stevens and Williams, in 4 colours. Recorded as 'Arboresque' in 1930. Crystal over cracked iridescent surface
Dodsworth - '... a style known as Arboresque, introduced in 1933' and 'Clear glass, blown into an irregular patterned mould and sprayed with orange metallic salts.'
I'm not entirely sure about the link Fred gave to the vaseline glass site piece, but his piece doesn't appear to fit the description of any of the three authors and his description doesn't mention 'iridescent' at all -
it says '... A design that was unique to Stevens & Williams was ARBORESQUE and is a crackle effect that is internal. This style came in a lot of shapes and at least 4 different colors. This version is vaseline with blue accents and handles.'
So perhaps they fit the apparently unknown description of 'Arabesque' rather than 'Arboresque'? Whilst the bowls we know as rainbow do fit the description of 'Arboresque' given in The Crystal Years.
Perhaps there has been some confusion between this design 'known as' Arabesque, and the range of 'Arboresque?
With regards the spiral multicoloured decor we know as rainbow fitting the description of 'tree-like', I would say that all the vases I've found online have jade green in them which could be said to represent trees. The pink and green could be interpreted as tree branches with blossom and the pink and blue, tree branches with sky?
An arbor can also be described as 'a shelter of vines or branches or of latticework covered with climbing shrubs or vines' (Merriam-Webster dictionary)
I think the rainbow decor fits that well.
I've put two links here, one to a pink and green vase we know as rainbow, the other to the blue and green version just for reference:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42704.msg237570.html#msg237570
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF1198.jpg
For the fourth colour (as Manley asserts it came in 4 colours, though as I've said he may have been confusing arabesque and 'Arboresque' in which case his mention of the 4 colours would refer to arabesque I guess), but in the case of those vases we know as rainbow, that would be clear as many of the versions show clear as well as the two colours. So the colours are Jade green, Rose, Blue and Clear.
So do we have perhaps have a new decor and pattern name match?
m
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By the 1930s it would have been known as Royal Brierley.
I looked up Royal Brierley Arboresque but the only reference I could find was this in the Corning.
Tantalising but unable to 'open' any of the references. It is to a trade catalogue
that contains
'Stemware, tumblers, cut vases, bowls, decanters, celeries, etc.; also colored Arboresque.
Dated by reference to Stevens & Williams description books.'
http://www.cmog.org/library/royal-brierley-crystal-catalog-sheets-tableware
With reference this thread - they are unable to take queries at Broadfield House at the moment, however I have asked the question and if they have time they will look into this. It's not as easy as just opening a book unfortunately. The records are not held at Broadfield House.
I'll come back if I have an update.
m
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I found this coming up in the Fieldings sale
http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/104883
'A large late 19th Century Stevens & Williams Arabesque bowl of circular form with a petal edged rim decorated with an applied white crackle finish over the graduated cranberry to clear ground, mounted to a silver plated twin handled stand with fruiting berry feet, width 24cm'
A crackle glass bowl with a white overlay crackle described as
Late 19th century Stevens and Williams Arabesque
I think there might have been some confusion somewhere in the books between Arabesque (description of) and the range named Arboresque (still to discover what this range might look like but have proposed it is possibly the range we know as Stevens and Williams rainbow).
No reply from Broadfield House on this query and I'm not able to go next week unfortunately (planning now to be there early April)
m
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This is an interesting thread, albeit a bit confusing at times.
So, to add a little to the pot, I thought I would share two fairy lamp examples in the "arabesque" pattern. The techniques are similar, but different. Both fairy lamps have been seen with red, blue, and citron ground. The large fairy lamp with the matching base has been identified in the 1895 Schreiber & Neffen catalog as model number 1491.
Information is welcomed.
Jim.
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Jim thanks for posting those. This appears to be the pattern book for 1894-1896
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/P_1894-1896.pdf
according to these links
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/index.php/en/databaze-2/sample-books
Do you know whereabouts or what page in the book your lamps might be please? I couldn't see them on going through it but I find reading pattern books very difficult.
edited to add - ah, I see there are more than one link to the 1895 period -
more links here:
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/2/BP3_1894-1897.pdf
and here also:
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/PH1_1894-1895.pdf
and the pattern No.1491 seems to appear on this link on the actual page of the pattern book 162
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/PH1_1894-1895.pdf but doesn't look like your fairy lamp.
Is there a difference between the numbers on the catalogue and the pattern books maybe then as I notice you say 'catalog model number 1491'? Perhaps they are not the same?
m
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The reference was to this catalog page.
http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Fairylamp/CatalogAds/SchreiberNeffen1895_Mod.jpg
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ah, so did you mean no 1481?
That no 1481 appears here in the pattern books no 1481 on page 169 of the actual pattern book
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/PH1_1894-1895.pdf
So there must have been a different numbering system as it doesn't look like the item in that catalogue page does it?
Even so, if that catalogue page is Schreiben and Neffen then perhaps some of these crackle glass pieces may be Schreiben and Neffen and we just need to find the shape in the pattern books. No mean task as there appears to be hundreds to go through :-X
Thank you so much for posting this link Jim. I wonder if quite a few crackle pieces have been misidentified and might now be corrected. But I think finding the patterns/shapes is going to be a hard task :)
m
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Yes, my mistake on the catalog number. If the catalog page number is different from the design book, I wonder if it could be found in another book?
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It also appears on page 171 here
http://www.schreiber-neffen.com/attachments/article/10/PH1_1894-1895.pdf
where it says No 1487 Gleich no 1481
but it is still not a match.
I don't know what Gleich no means - whether they changed their pattern numbering or whether it's a link to another piece in the same shape but different decor or what?
However, if that decor is correct for Schreiben and Neffen then there will be other pieces out there possibly that have been misattributed to Kralik or Stevens and Williams or other makers no doubt.
m
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Unless I'm mistaken, gleich in German translates to "equal". So, number 1487 equals 1481.
I wanted to thank you for leading me to the pattern books. I have been slowly going through them and have uncovered many candle lamps that I was unaware of. Some have been documented with actual lamps, but others are still waiting to be found.
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Jim could you tell us what type of surface the ruby / cranberry fairy lamp id'd as Schreiber and Neffen has? Is it a crackle type surface or smooth surface in and out? This is hard to tell from the thumbnail.
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David,
The pattern appears to be on the surface of the cranberry ground. The surface is not smooth.....but is not real rough either. I have sent you a full size image.
Jim.
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In my experience of the pieces I have owned, the surface of some crackle pieces (those that have an outer casing of crackle and have not been recased again in clear) can feel rough or quite smooth depending on whether it was reheated a little after crackling.
m
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Dear All,
thought I add a picture of what maybe a small " Aboresque " bowl very similar in shape to the very first piece that started this thread.
The blue piece is a Stevens and Williams Swirl rose bowl which I purchased at the same time as part of a pair together from the same dealer. They came from the same source.
Is this the elusive " Aboresque " or ??? I note it is on a white base and dissimilar in this way from others however....
Kind regards
Andrew