Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: selina on September 04, 2007, 09:35:12 PM
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Hi,
I got this the other day from ebay. No real value as its damaged. But I was curious as to where it comes from and its age. Its only a small shallow bowl. 12.5cm wide. The top is smooth and all the patterning is on the base. Tiny dots make up the saying. There is also extra glass around the outside, like when a mold is made and the excess glass hasnt been removed.
The proverb seems old 'A good name is better than riches'. So basically I just wondered all about it. What it was used for? Any information as Ive never seen one before.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8399
Trudy
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Hi Trudy,
The proverb is from the Bible Proverbs 22.1 according to my googling.
Hil :D
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Trudy — It's by Greener & Co., The Wear Flint Glass Works, Sunderland, from around 1888. There are design elements in your plate/bowl that you will also encounter in their baskets that carry three registrations, found in blue, amber and flint. In front of me I have a low, handled candlestick with similar style wording "GOOD NIGHT".
Bernard C. 8)
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Trudy — It's by Greener & Co., The Wear Flint Glass Works, Sunderland, from around 1888. There are design elements in your plate/bowl that you will also encounter in their baskets that carry three registrations, found in blue, amber and flint. In front of me I have a low, handled candlestick with similar style wording "GOOD NIGHT".
Bernard C. 8)
Thanks Bernard, Hil! Wow, 1888. No wonder it has damage. Although even the damage is weird. Cracks but only on the inner part of the glass, none can be felt on the outside. I'll have to look the company up. I thought it was old from the wording, but you never can tell these days.
Trudy
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Trudy — Try http://www.theglassman.co.uk/index.htm Incidentally here you will see an amber version of my "GOOD NIGHT" candlestick.
Note that Davidson made similar plates. For example "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" is Davidson.
"SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS" plates were by Nailsea.
Bernard C. 8)
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Hi Trudy
Your cracks may not be cracks, they may be pressing flaws and very common in this sort of Victorian glass. A close up of one might help
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Hi Trudy and all,
as far as I can see there is in fact a crack at about 8.00 h - which in my opinion does not at all detract from the plate's real beauty! :D
The excess glass cannot be removed by fire polishing, it would destroy the fine pattern of the text also. :o
Normally these plates were for bread or biscuits, depending on the size.
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Pamela, Christine, there are 2 large cracks (I'll try for pics)..and some tiny ones which look like faults. Before the lady was going to send it, she told me there were chips on the outside. I thought it was old and said I dont care, send it anyway. The 'chips' are actually bits taken out of the excess glass and not affecting the main part of the dish.
It is beautiful and the blue and the lovely way the saying is done was what attracted me to it. I was so disappointed when I saw the cracks but they are easy to miss as they show up on an angle not straight on. And I didnt pay a great deal for it, so it was worth taking a chance I thought.
Trudy
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Nice plate Trudy, I don't think I've seen one with a proverb on before - I like it! :D
Mine has 'Give us this day our daily bread'...so I keep my spare change in it in the bedroom. ;)
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Max — That's a lovely example of the Davidson style. The alphabet plate is similar.
Bernard C. 8)
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Wow Max, Thats gorgeous! They certainly have an appeal of their own. Years ago I was never attracted to any of this kind of glass. Nothing pressed at all. Now they seem to have become beautiful to me all of a sudden :)
Close up pics..
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8403 crack
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8402 crack 2
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8401 crack viewed above
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8400 other flaws.
Still love it anyway. It reminds me of me..Cracked with a couple of flaws..lol
Trudy
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Yup, they're cracks, you can tell by the silvery reflection, :cry:. We should be so lucky only to be cracked at 119
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Oh well..I didnt have high hopes of it being worth anything much other than being interesting. I guess at least I can say I have a true antique. I wish it could talk! Id love to know what its been used for and where its been for 119 years. :)
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Years ago I was never attracted to any of this kind of glass. Nothing pressed at all. Now they seem to have become beautiful to me all of a sudden
You'll find that happens Selina. It's part of learning and appreciating and I've had the same experience as you with this. I can't even say definitely that I'll never learn to love frilly victorian glass...it could happen! ;) ;D
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Ive already done that Max...couldnt stand green glass before, now I have a couple of bits. And as for Victorian..I thought it was ugly. Now...oh I drool at the bits I see on ebay..:) Frills and all..
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Mmmm, Greener - I didn't know that but am interested because I have a 5" saucer (uncoloured: flint) in an identical pattern. All of this dotty Victorian glass is amazingly reflective - if you haven't yet discovered that, try placing it somewhere the sun or a light strikes it. The effect is wonderful.
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Bernard, please, is this Greener or Davidson then too?
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/kerzenhalter/05915.html poor photos, I'm afraid :-X
and how about this one?
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/05888.html
more plates: (unknown)
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/03266.html
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/03272.html
and many more on my site :)
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Pamela — Your plate is identical to the one Max has, so, surprisingly, it's also Davidson. ::)
Don't know about the candlestick. It doesn't look familiar. What is the design on the base?
Nice to see the German language examples. I presume the last one is "GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD" in German.
I was browsing around your site before we went on holiday, and found several pieces that I could help you with, including a nice example of Wood Bros. Unfortunately I got distracted. I will have another go when I have half a mo'.
Bernard C. 8)
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Hmmm I found my plate here...but in clear instead of blue...
http://www.mark-norton-fine-antiques.com/pressed%20glass.htm
Trudy
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I know of no firm evidence that either Davidson or Greener produced a glass plate with the specific motto "A Good Name is Better Than Riches".
From reply #12 of
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50127.msg364106.html#msg364106
In the King James translation of the Bible: "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold" - Proverbs 22:1.
I too have seen a similar [unmarked] plate in transparent pale blue glass, diameter 5 inches.
I have also seen a similar 6 inch diameter plate in clear glass with the embossed legend REGISTERD [sic.] DESIGN NO 2971 and, significantly, with the 'N' in DESIGN reversed as in a mirror image . So, REGISTERD is mis-spelled, and ther is an anomaly in the orientation of a letter. Interestingly, this was being offered for sale by an Australian seller too.
Now I have photos to show of an 8 inch/200mm diameter plate of the design with the embossed legend REGISTERD DESIGN NO 2971 (and the reversed N in DESIGN) PLUS the embossed legend MADE IN JAPAN (with the 'N' in JAPAN also reversed as in a mirror image) - permission to re-use these images on the GMB granted by dick123.
I'm not sure about glassware specifically, but in America, the McKinley Tariff, which took effect on 1 March 1891, required that all imported goods be marked in English with their country of origin. At the time, NIPPON was considered to be an acceptable name for Japan, so most Japanese ceramics of this period were backstamped NIPPON or HAND PAINTED NIPPON, often with a company logo as well. However, not all were stamped that way. There were still unmarked pieces, and pieces stamped JAPAN as well. Then the U.S. Customs Bureau ruled that NIPPON was no longer an acceptable synonym - as of August 1, 1921 all goods were supposed to be backstamped JAPAN. Technically, the 'Made in Japan' Era began when the 'Nippon' era ended in 1921, but it really was not that precise. At some point the US Customs Bureau may have required that the words MADE IN... be added to the backstamps, but this was not always done. Unmarked pieces sometimes slipped through Customs, but most of the ceramics from 1921 to 1941 are marked either JAPAN or MADE IN JAPAN. The United States occupied Japan from September 1945, until April 1952. The Occupied Japan backstamp Era truly began August 15, 1947 when the first shipment of Occupied Japan ceramics arrived in America. The U.S Customs Bureau decreed in 1949 that Japanese goods could be marked OCCUPIED JAPAN, MADE IN OCCUPIED JAPAN, JAPAN or MADE IN JAPAN.
So it appears as though these ' A Good Name .." glass plates could possibly be 1920s-1940s Japanese-manufactured 'looky-likey' imports destined for America, attempting to imitate late 19th century British or American motto glassware (probably British glassware in this instance because of the 'faux' or anomalous design registration number).
Pamela's mention that she acquired a similar plate in Australia or New Zealand might also have a bearing in that Japanese glassware for export to America could easily have also found its way to the Antipodes. Moreover, in the mid- to late-1930s, Western designs of all types were being widely copied by the Japanese and sold in Australia. As a result, British manufacturers of glassware and ceramics started to registered designs both in Britain and Australia so that from the late 1930s and into the 1940s articles are seen bearing both British and Australian design registration numbers. [Some Davidson glass designs from the time are commonly found with dual design registration numbers].
Does anyone have photos to show of "A Good Name..." motto glassware of different shape (but similar design), or even the same motto but with a different decorative design to those shown here, please?
Fred