Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne on October 04, 2004, 01:19:46 AM
-
I have a small collection of Chippendale glass, which I've been collecting since my grandmother gave me a candlestick when I was about 8 years old. I'd love to know if there are any surviving catalogues of Chippendale and where they may be seen. My collection is currently packed away as we're having some work done on the house and I don't want it damaged, but when it's unpacked again I'm going to photograph each piece and create a little webspace about them, so a catalogue would give me extra info for the pieces. Can anyone help please?
-
Hi Anne,
I know of two chippendale catalgues. One is 1935 (i think) by George Davidson and Co and lists the Chippendale styles they made. A copy of this catalogue may still be available from the Shipley Art Gallery, Gateshead.
The other is a reproduction ot an early American catalogue (cannot remember which year). This is available on Ebay.
Regards
Chris
-
Thanks Chris, I'm following up on the eBay one and shall contact Shipley Art Gallery about theirs as it's not listed in their online shop.
I appreciate your help greatly.
-
Hi Anne
Have you had any luck with Chippendale Catalogues, I tried the Shipley Art Gallery, no luck, lots of excuses. Have you seen a web site called Kristol-Kabinet? worth a look. there is also a Book on Kristol.
I collect G Davidson (all of it!!), I have a few pieces of Chippendale my self, there is another Kristol pattern called Colonial which can be confusing as it is very much like Chippendale.
Have you got yours unpacked yet and can we see the web site soon?
I will try and take photos of mine and put a link to my photo album.
Tony H.
Frank
Can we sort out this log on thing? Plesae.
Tony H.
-
Good morning Anne/ Tony H
I'm positive I bought a copy of the Chippendale catalogue early in the 90's...it might take me a couple of days to find it and if you wish I could scan it and send to you as an email attachment....let me know please
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Hi Gareth
Thank you for your reply.
I would be very pleased if you could find it, I would love a copy, thank you
Tony H
Sorry I forgot to log in.
-
Hi Tony,
Also no luck with Shipley :(
Glass is now unpacked and awaiting photographing - it has had to wait until I finished the latest play as that's eaten all my spare time! ;) Hopefully I should be able to get it done soon and then I'll add it to my Glass Gallery Album.
I think one of the pieces I bought as Chippendale may be the Colonial pattern - it's a cheese dish and the handle is rounded rather than angular - I have 2 photos of it here: http://www.yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=5 and here: http://www.yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=4
I'd appreciate your opinion of it.
Hi Gareth,
Oh yes please! I would love a copy if it's at all possible, and thank you very much for the offer. :)
-
Good morning Anne ? Tony
The catalogue is where I actually thought it was...which is an extremely rare occurance these days.
It consists of 18 pages with typical Davidsons basic line drawings. A few of the pages are a little lop-sided ( blame Nick Dolan for that ) but a very useful reference item though.
Once I've scanned them I'll be able to determine the file sizes without compromising the detail. Do you have broadband??..if not I may need to send these to you on a cd rom.
Anne
Your cheese dish appears identical to the Chippendale patterns 1100 ( 8.5 inches long) or 1552 ( 7 inches long ). Other than the dimensions they are of the same design.
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Hi Gareth,
Yes I have broadband so filesizes aren't a problem for me at all, thank you for asking though. Do you want an e-mail address now or when you've scanned it?
Thanks also for checking out my cheese dish, the handle had me thinking it may have been Colonial rather than Chippendale, so it's good to have you confirm the style for me.
I just measured the dish base and it's almost 7" long by 5.7" wide at the widest part, so I guess it's the 1552 pattern. It's absolutely perfect as well, not a mark or flaw anywhere, and was one of my eBay bargains last year. I shall have to relocate the pictures into the Chippendale section of the gallery now. :)
-
Hi Anne
once I,ve scanned ir will be fine.
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Hi Anne and Gareth
Anne Your cheese dish is a great find have a look here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/Chippendalenine.jpg
Gareth When you mentioned Nick Dolan it rang a bell, some time back I got a copy of a Davidson Catalogue from Chris at Cloud Glass, I had forgot this, I think this may have come from Nick. My copy ony has 14 pages, page 14 shows Trinket Sets No 1 and No 3 is your copy the same, if so can I have page 15 16 17 and 18, at this time I do not have broadband, it has only just come to my area and I have not changed over yet, but if the 4 pages are not to large a file it should be OK.
-
Hi Tony
Absolutely...but I have about 5 different Davidsons catalogues so could you advise which one exactly it is that you have.
regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Frank
Can we sort out this log on thing? Plesae.
Hi Tony,
Research indicates that this is mostly caused by ISP's that change the IP addresses of their customers, even while they are surfing. Hence you can get signed off while writing a message. The security is based on you IP address matching your cookie and is the best way of preventing identity theft.
The only way around this, as far as I can see is by reducing the security level and that will still not work in some case. Unfortunately most of the discussions are highly technical and leave me wondering!
Basically, as I understand it, your IP address is stored in your cookie and session data, when you post a message or move between messages, and your IP address is changed by your ISP, it says... is this Tony's IP address... NO... Impostor sign him out! :?
:?: Anne - you use PHBB have you had this problem, or do you understand the issues discussed in the PHBB support forums?
-
Hi Gareth
Five Davidson Catalogues !!! are they all on Chippiendale or are any on there other glass.
My copy is on Chippendale only, there is no date, but it is thought to be mid 1930s.
The Forward to my copy reads.
The publication of this catalogue, the first to be compiled since "CHIPPENDALE" became an All British product signifies the beginning of a new era in the long history of " CHIPPENDALE " Glassware
It continues for 4 more paragraphs to tell about making Chippendale in colour.
Hope this is of some help, if not I will scan somemore pages and post a link.
Tony H.
-
Question Anne - you use PHBB have you had this problem, or do you understand the issues discussed in the PHBB support forums?
Hi Frank,
No I've never had this problem appear on our phpBB boards at all, and this is the only board I use that I've seen it happen on so I'm a little puzzled as well.
The explanation about dynamic IP addresses seems strange to me as I used to have one until last Nov, and was disconnected every two hours and had to redial into my ISP. Even then I didn't get logged out of this board or any other even when I was in the middle of a post or an admin function on our boards.
I've tried to look at the phpBB discussions about this but the website seems to be offline just now, so I'll check back later and see what it says.
-
Hi Gareth
Five Davidson Catalogues !!! are they all on Chippiendale or are any on there other glass.
My copy is on Chippendale only, there is no date, but it is thought to be mid 1930s.
Tony H.
Hi Tony
Sorry I think I slightly misunderstood your question. I have 1 Davidsons Chippendale undated but c1930's. The other 4 I bought as they referenced cloud glass but also included various other Davidsons non-cloud items....and a vaste range they are too. I think I also have a 1912 catalogue as well somewhere.
I've just checked and I do have pages 15 to 18 and will hopefully transmit them to you tomorrow.
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Good afternoon Anne and Tony
If you would give me your email addresses please I will send you the appropriate Chippendale pages
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Hi Gareth
Could you send to ( address removed ). Many thanks for this.
Question.
When Davidson made Chippendale from original molds did they remove the Kris-Ktol and Chippendale marks from them I have pieces with and without, how can you tell what was made in USA which the National Glass Co imported into UK and which was Made in by Davidson in UK.
Tony H
-
Hi Gareth
Question.
When Davidson made Chippendale from original molds did they remove the Kris-Ktol and Chippendale marks from them I have pieces with and without, how can you tell what was made in USA which the National Glass Co imported into UK and which was Made in by Davidson in UK.
Tony H
This is something I've often wondered as well, as some of mine has Krys-tol and some has the US monogram and the rest is unmarked.
-
Received safely, thank you so much Gareth, you're a star! :)
-
Hi Gareth
Question.
When Davidson made Chippendale from original molds did they remove the Kris-Ktol and Chippendale marks from them I have pieces with and without, how can you tell what was made in USA which the National Glass Co imported into UK and which was Made in by Davidson in UK.
Tony H
This is something I've often wondered as well, as some of mine has Krys-tol and some has the US monogram and the rest is unmarked.
Hi Anne Tony
Unfortunately I cannot answer this at all. My only real interest in Davidsons is regarding cloud glass. I bought the Chippendale one with the cloud glass ones as at the time I thought...well why not !
I'm sure others will be able to answer this for you
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Thanks again Gareth, I'll wait and see if anyone else knows. Meanwhile I'm happily browsing the catalogue! 8)
-
Hi Gareth
Email recieved all OK many thanks, it tuns out I have a flower set in mat Emerald but no stand.
Ever thought of putting the other Catalogues on CD?, if you do I would like to buy a copy.
Tony H.
-
Hi All,
I think that when Davidson started making Chippendale for the National Glass Co, the Krys-tol mark was no longer in use. The adverts for Chippendale from the mid to late 1920s did not use the Krs-tol name. When the National Glass Co trademarked Chippendale in 1922, they did not trademark Krs-tol as well. It is interesting to note that Chippendale was trademarked over 10 years after it was first imported into the UK.
Regards
Chris
-
Hi Chris,
Can you clarify if this means that the moulds did not bear the Krys-tol name, or than the name had been erased from the mould, or that the moulds marked Krys-tol were not those sold to Davidson?
What Tony and I were trying to find out was if the Krys-tol marked moulds were ever stiill used by Davidson, rather than whether or not Davidson used the Krys-tol mark in, say, their advertising or literature. (Does that make sense?)
Your views would be most appreciated.
BTW I've just spent another very enjoyable hour on your website - I keep going back and reading and drooling! I just bought a flint chevron vase (marked RD No 826869)and wanted to confirm it was Davidson - which it is of course, and your site did that for me. Thank you for so much wonderful information on there.
-
Hi Anne,
There is nothing in the records to say whether or not the moulds used by Davidson had the Krys-tol mark in them. I do not believe they did for a number of reasons:
1) Very little Chippendale glass in the UK has the Krys-tol mark - this suggests that most of the production, whether by Davidson or before, did not have the mark.
2) The Krys-tol mark only appears in the early adverts. I have not been able to check all of my notes from the Pottery Gazette, but a 1911 advert uses the Krys-Tol name, but the next one I can find in 1923 does not. None of the later adverts use the Krys-tol name.
3) If the glass were marked 'Krys-tol', but was being advertised as Chippendale, then this could confuse the buyer - what have I been sold Chippendale glass or Krys-tol glass. Therefore I would assume that if the Krys-tol name was not being used in the adverts then it did not appear on the glass.
4) The examples of Chippendale glassware which have an original Davidson label of which I am aware are not marked Krys-tol.
5) The Davidson Chippendale catalogue of 1935 does not mention Krys-tol.
If the above logic is correct, then it means that very early on (pre 1923), the moulds from which the English Chippendale glassware was made did not have the Krys-tol mark.
Regards
Chris
-
Thanks for your reply Chris, most helpful. I shall go though my Chippendale pieces and see which is marked and which isn't. I'm trying to find time to get them all out and take photos but work seems to be taking over just now! :roll:
I'm definitely interested in finding out more about Chippendale, some of mine isn't listed in Gareth's catalogue, so I'm wondering if they are either pre-Davidson, or later pieces added to the range. I'm going to order the Krys-tol catalogue repro and see if they're listed in there for starters.
-
I'm definitely interested in finding out more about Chippendale, some of mine isn't listed in Gareth's catalogue, so I'm wondering if they are either pre-Davidson, or later pieces added to the range. I'm going to order the Krys-tol catalogue repro and see if they're listed in there for starters.
Hi Anne
I think you may well find that the "Chippendale" style was a very popular one and copied by other makers with small modifications.....to this end definite attribution may be a little tricky. Do you have any photos of the ones you haven't located in the catalogue. ... and I suppose the other point is whether or not Davidsons added any more to the range after the 1930's catalogue.
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
-
Hi Gareth,
Yes I'm suspecting that some of mine are "Chippendale copies" as the colour, look and feel of the glass isn't the same as those marked, nor the same as those which I can match with the catalogue.
I've one in particular which has a slightly yellow (to my eye anyhow!) tinge to the glass. It's still clear, but whereas some flint glass is very clear, some has a grey cast, other goes sun-purpled, this has a yellowy cast and just feels like a inferior somehow.
I'll get the pictures done as soon as I can and add them to my Glass Gallery (which is offline again at the moment as we're moving to a new webhost!).
-
Hi Anne,
Many people copied Chippendale, including Davidson! Some examples of Davidson's 283 suite are almost identical to Chippendale e.g. the 283 two handled sugar. Other Chippendale look-alikes include the 'Cambridge' suite from British American Glass, Walther's 'Roland' suite (some of it) and one from Mathew Turnbull (I can't remember the suite number). I think this shows how popular it was.
I have been checking the Pottery Gazette again. The first adverts for Chippendale 'Krys-tol' glass appeared in late 1910. At the start of 1920, the adverts still had the 'Krys-tol' name, but it was no longer prominent. The last few adverts in 1920 did not mention 'Krys-tol' at all. It looks as if the Krys-tol name was dropped about then.
Some of the other suites sold by National Glass included the Georgian suite (which has been talked about in another posting), 'Fire King' ovenware and 'Balmoral'. The Balmoral suite was made in Czechoslovakia the rest were American.
Regards
Chris
-
Anne
I have had a look at your photo album, in the Chippendale album no 28 a large water jug, cannot find it in catalogue.
Bagley made a water set in a patten called Queens Choice which is very much like Chippendale, it is in Angela's book on Bagley Glass, has your jug a Reg No inside on the base, 698049 May 1923.
Tony H
PS Thank you Bernard I had forgotten about this Topic
-
Hi Tony,
No number on the jug I'm afraid. :(
I'm glad you queried it though... it's very similar to Chippendale but I'd not managed to find it in a catalogue either so I was beginning to doubt it. Most Chippendale ones seem to have scalloped tops and this is plain. The handle isn't quite right either I feel. I'm not sure if it's Bagley - were they all marked? I'll shift it from the Chippendale section into Jugs instead and keep looking.
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-175
Many thanks. :)
PS I still have several shelves of Chippendale in the cupboard that haven't been photographed yet! ::)
PPS if you spot anything else that's wrong in the Gallery please flag it up... I'm still learning here. ;D
-
Anne
Do you have any of the Chippendale Mustard and Cover Cat No 559 or 560 to day I found one in our local secondhand shop, see link.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/ChippendaleMustardandcover559or560.jpg
In my copy of Chippendale Cat there are no sizes, mine is 4.5" high OA by 4.5" across handles, do not no if this is 559 small or 560 large.
Tony H
-
No I don't have that one Tony, the only one I've found so far is the handle-less one. http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-176
Need one of the other size to be able to decide which is which I think! :)
-
Managed to photograph some more of the Chippendale collection Tony... if there's anything you think isn't please let me know and I'll move it to the Chippendale-style album instead.. ;) http://www.yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/
Still have more to do!
-
Anne
Thank you for the photos of your Chippendale a very nice collection, the only ones I would question are #17 divded dish #22 Mayonnaise Bowl in cat it is #1143 and looks to have a straight base like your Mustard pot the piece you show has a foot, #30 Jug I feel the handle is wrong, all the piece's in the catalogue have square handles, of coures this is only MHO.
I will try and photo some of mine and put them in photobucket.
Tony H
-
You've highlighted the ones I'm not sure of as well Tony. :) They look and feel like Chippendale, but I've not found them catalogued yet, so I'm keeping looking. As to the jug handle - there are some round handles in the Central Glass Works Chippendale catalogue, so I wondered if it may be one of their designs, or it may of course be a Chippendale-lookalike. The mayo bowl has me stumped as it has that tiny foot. More digging needed... and more photos to follow as and when! ;)
-
Hi Anne
Well I have managed to put photos of my small collection of Chippendale into an album in Photobucket here is a link.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/Chippendale/
You mention a Central Glass Works Catalogue for Chippendale do you have a copy? if not do you know ware it can be found.
Please feel free to comment on my ID's this is all the Chippendale at the moment, but I have a LOT more Davidson will see if I can make up more albums.
Tony H
-
Hi Tony,
Er... We need to know your user id and password before we can view your chippendale glass !!!
Chris
-
Chris
When I first posted this link I tried it and it opened up into my Chippendale album I do not know why it has change, will see what I can do
Tony H
PS If I post a link to one photo it will open on the GMB but if I post a link to a whole album it will not open on GMB, to do this I would have to upgrade to a premium account US$25 per year I am not ready to do this just yet or give my password.
So sorry folks it is back to the drawing board.
Tony H
-
Tony I'll e-mail you off board about this. ;)
-
Hi Folks
Back from the drawing board, I remembered that I had a Yahoo photo album, it was still thier, I changed to Photobucket as in Yahoo you cannot link to a photo you can only link to or share a whole album.
Well lets see if this works here is a link to my Chippendale Glass
http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tony554nz/album?.dir=3a2c&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%
Let me know if it works, comments and questions please.
Tony H in NZ
-
Although nowadays synonymous, Krys-tol is actually the name for a glass making process created by Benjamin Jacobs about 1905. There are a number of patterns made with this process and are marked Krys-Tol. Chippendale is one of those patterns.
The Chippendale pattern was first made by Ohio Flint Glass Company (1905-1908) and they obtained a patent on the design 05-Feb-1907. When they closed, Jacobs went to Jefferson Glass Company.
Jefferson Glass produced the Chippendale pattern from 1909 -1919 when they sold it to Central Glass. At this point in time, there were more then 300 items in the line.
Central Glass produced the pattern from 1919-1929 when they sold the molds (and rights) to Charles J. Pratt; their agent in England.
Mr. Pratt had G. Davidson & Co. produce the items for him. Circa 1933 Davidson purchased the molds from Mr. Pratt. They continued to produce items in this pattern well into the mid-1950's.
Both Jefferson & Central had a large International market for this pattern. Various records indicate they shipped goods to Western Europe, India, China, Australia and the United Kingdom. In the U.K. this pattern was sold by the National Glass Company.
Jefferson opened a factory in Toronto Canada in 1912 which was later taken over by Dominion Glass Co. It is quite likely, Chippendale pattern items were also produced there.
Bagley (UK) produced a few items in their "Queen's Choice" line which have a striking similarity to Chippendale, especially the salt.
In addition to paper labels, items have been found embossed with "Krys-Tol", "Chippendale-Krys-Tol", and "Pat, Feb 5, 1907-Krys-tol" It has been reported that only the items produced by Ohio Flint, Jefferson, or Central carry the embossed markings.
Colors (colours) Produced primarily in crystal, items can be found in Blue, Black, Amethyst, Amber, Canary, Green, and Chinese jade. Davidson is reported to have made some items in both their Amber and Green "Cloud Glass".
-
Hope it is OK to bump this up, but was doing a search on CHippendale & found this thread. Does anyone still have a copy of the scanned catalogue? I, too, am collecting this glass and would love a reference!
-
Chloe, some of my identified Chippendale is in my Cyberglass Gallery - you might find them useful for id'ing things: http://www.yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/ - put Chippendale into the Search to bring them all up in a batch.
-
So if I've understood this correctly, the items in the 1915 Krys-Tol advert (shown in Raymond Notley's, Pressed Flint Glass), would have been made by Davidson from the 1930's-50's.
At the time of the advert the items made by Jefferson, and also Central in the next decade, would have had some form of trademark in the base of their moulds. So, when Davidson bought the moulds they were reworked to have the star in the base to obscure the trademark? ???
I'm curious because I picked up a dinky pair of salts (not the trophy style) which appear to be in the 1915 advert, but with a star base. They measure approximately 6cm x 3cm and weigh 70g each.