Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on March 18, 2017, 09:59:24 PM
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This small pink opalescent dichroid creamer arrived a few days ago. It is a very interesting piece.
I suspect it dates to around 1840 ish. Possibly. And is possibly Bohemian.
It’s biggest attraction is that it is dichroic or girasol glass i.e.in reflected light it is pink opalescent glass but in transmitted light it is bright orange and nearly transparent (So for example in the second photo down, you can actually see even the facet cut ribs of the opposite side of the creamer through the glass)
It is cased in clear. The opalescent layer interior goes right to the rim of the jug with no clear rim showing. (There is sometimes a clear rim showing on Bohemian Biedermeier bechers that have a rosalin or rosaglas interior cased in clear, for example).
The rim is firepolished not cut.
The foot has a very shallow, very large polished pontil mark covering the entire foot – almost as though the foot was ground flat, but it isn’t as can be seen by the extreme ring of wear around the rim of the foot.
It is not heavy for size and glows slightly yellowy under blacklight (the clear handle).
It is impeccably made in every respect:
- The opalescence has some white vertical streaks in it exactly to the left of each of the facets, but it is not faceted on the inside, it is completely smooth and round. These are not reflections from the facet cuts.
- The facet cutting on the exterior is absolutely immaculate and perfectly done. Down to the fact that the handle is finished at the base in a facet cut triangle that joins the vertical facet of the body, and to the touch appears as though the handle rises out of the body rather than being applied to it.
- Where the handle is applied to the top , the rim of the jug is pulled up slightly and there is a tiny circle indent where a tool has been used to apply the circle,as though to ensure the glass body and the handle adhere.
- The entire body is facet cut in vertical facets ending in petals at the top at the rim and at the bottom of the flared foot.
- And then it has a horizontal band of facet cuts glass around the collar.
The horizontal facet cut band goes all the way around the body but then stops under the handle and the horizontal band is left smooth and curved instead at that part.
- The foot is part of the whole piece not applied.
I have attached lots of pictures to show some effects of the glass:
1) The first two are one showing it pink in reflected light against a black background and then the next showing it orange in transmitted light against a white background.
This is so a comparison can be made with photos taken in the same way, of a very old piece of Bohemian opalescent dichroid glass in the British Museum. That piece dates to around 1680 and is in the Rothschild collection. I have attached a link to the photos taken of that piece:
http://wb.britishmuseum.org/MCN138#1489945001
A lot of recent research has been carried out on that lidded beaker and one of the comments in the link is
'...The beaker is moulded with sea gods at play. Traces of arsenic in the glass make it appear to change colour like a precious opal.'
2) The third photo shows the pink jug on a white background in daylight so it can be compared to the colour of a tall cut gorge de pigeon flacon in the link. That piece is sold as French but I have seen that design (tall in metal holder) produced in Hyalith glass and said to be from Buquoy. So I am not entirely sure of that ‘ gorge de pigeon’ piece:
http://www.poussecornet.auction.fr/_fr/lot/flacon-a-eau-de-melisse-en-opaline-de-cristal-gorge-de-pigeon-taillee-a-motif-de-7739162#.WM0gClWLTIU
http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/auctionmediaphotos/c/e/1/1426679246993081.jpeg
3) The fourth shows a photo of the jug taken in daylight but with some artificial lighting landing on it – this is what is looks like mostly on the shelf. It looks pink but with an orange tinge. That can be compared to a cut gorge de pigeon perfume flask that I have linked to:
http://www.anticstore.com/DocBD/commerce/antiquaire/galerie-ouaiss-antiquites-674/objet/59505/AnticStore-Large-Ref-59505_02.jpg
Basically it is very similar and has a very similar effect under lighting, to Gorge de Pigeon glass and certainly some of the ‘more pink’ Gorge de Pigeon pieces shown in Baguiers et Verres a Boire (Leon Darnis).
It is different to some other Gorge de Pigeon pieces I have seen though, which can sometimes have a more violet tinge to them. Links provided to show the comparisons if I can find some good online examples.
It would not be classed as Gorge de Pigeon glass though. That is French and is not cased in clear. It is coloured in the mass and is usually classed as an opaline glass. The little facet cut perfume bottle is a very good example of this as a comparison because it is facet cut but not cased in clear and the effect can be seen well in the link.
However this jug is, I think, basically an internal layer of gorge de pigeon pink but then cased in clear.
Some information: From the book quoted above, it appears to me that Gorge de Pigeon glass dates from c1820 to 1830. It appears to have been made by Bercy and also Montcenis. Some is just blown but other pieces are cut as well.
I am not sure where my creamer originates. It looks Bohemian and glows yellowish under blacklight which my 19th century Bohemian glass also does. However the rim is not cut but is firepolished ( this is a bit unusual for Bohemian glass) and the base is not polished flat but has a very large polished pontil mark (this is unusual for Bohemian glass but is seen on French glass).
I’ve added some more pictures in the next post to show the various aspects of the jug.
Hope you like it. m
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More photos of the detail
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the last picture on my first post is a very similar effect to this:
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/vase-151
This and other pieces in the Gorge de Pigeon colour in the Musee are described as Opaline lead glass.
They have two tall flacons described as French - so a correction to my query above:
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/flacon-121
I don't think my creamer is lead glass. Another reason why I think it might be Bohemian.
This is a pink version of 'Gorge de Pigeon' and described as that:
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/coupe-44
This is the more purple effect version as I was trying to describe above(also described as Gorge de Pigeon):
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/vase-166
This link shows some of the colour variations in their collection:
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/skinwebsearch?f[0]=f_sujetrepresente:/gorge%20de%20pigeon%20(couleur)
And a correction on the dates of Gorge de Pigeon:
They have a set dated 1814-1830
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/tete-a-tete
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My link on the collection of Gorge de Pigeon for the various effects didn't work sorry.
But on the left in the description of this linked piece, there is an underlined 'Gorge de Pigeon'
If you click on that then the a part of the collection should show which demonstrates the variations in colour:
http://collections.lesartsdecoratifs.fr/coupe-36
I'm not sure what went wrong.
Here are two good comparisons of colour to quite pink versions:
http://www.antiquites-catalogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/opaline-gorge-pigeon.jpg
http://www.cotebasqueencheres.com/images/ventes/79/83.jpg
I've attached a picture of the facet cutting either side of the handle.
m
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This is another example of a Bohemian faceted jug dating c.1846 that has the design cut around the jug but which then stops under the handle
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/26831524_knnchen-um-1846-marie-1846-unterland-he
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Someone has uploaded a scent bottle in what looks to be a cased in clear greyish green faceted glass.
They call it semi-opaque and question Buquoy:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/18/84/44/1884441deab93afb373f2127f8fdbe52.jpg
It has similarities in the cased way it was made and the effect although greyish-green as opposed to pink.
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Here is another piece, a goblet also id'd as Buquoy and with a clear or transparent casing over an translucent opaline interior
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3e/c7/44/3ec744724dcbaf2c8426e5408ad663ec.jpg
And on page 14 of this document from Walter Spiegl,there is another on the right hand side, that appears to have an opaline inner and to be case
http://www.glas-forschung.info/pageone/pdf/lith.pdf
m
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Searching in Czech I've now found 4 pieces that are opaline interior (opalescent in at least one case in a similar way that my jug is, but it appears to be a darker pink than my creamer) and then cased in transparent glass.
I'm not sure I really realised that some of the Buquoy Agatin-opal glas was cased in transparent glass. I knew that Lithyalin technique was done on transparent glass as well as Hyalith glass. And thinking on that, neither of my two pieces of Hyalith glass (one being Lithyalin decorated) are particularly heavy.
I've never seen a piece of Buquoy Agatin glass in the real life and just assumed they were all somehow marbled coloured in the mass and thick and heavy, because of their thick cut design I guess.
But I guess they aren't lead glass and possibly not as heavy as I had perceived from pictures perhaps?
And having done a lot of searching I can see that some pieces are cased in transparent glass (one definitely in clear, a couple in coloured transparent glass as far as I can tell). Perhaps they might not be classed as 'Agatin glas' as they appear to be cased rather than coloured in the mass.
Here are some links (took me ages to find the original source of the pinterest pictures >:( )
This first one is five layers of glass apparently though, so I guess it must be fairly weighty? But the link is good because you can enlarge it and see the transparent (opalescent?) outer layer
https://www.the-saleroom.com/de-de/auction-catalogues/dr-fischer/catalogue-id-fischer10014/lot-a399d3b3-96c9-46ec-b1a2-a5b600eef43e
This next one is turquoise and has an opaline interior not opalescent, and is cased in transparent turquoise glass
https://www.the-saleroom.com/de-de/auction-catalogues/dr-fischer/catalogue-id-fischer10014/lot-f7bfa51d-5bf7-4643-9351-a5b600eef53b
This last is a link to a picture of a perfume flakon which looks to have an opalescence to the glass and appears to be cased in transparent glass? - I've not been able to track to the original link so it's just a picture link:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cd/db/2c/cddb2cf2a7188ab4c5f81d6ffa1498d8.jpg
Of course it might not be Buquoy glass at all. But thinking about the way it is made that was the only option I could come up with as a possible for now.
m
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I'm trying not to get too attached to my initial thoughts, however this is a version of an agatinglas piece in the Corning.
Rather annoyingly it is not clickable to enlarge.
However the description of the piece and what it looks like in terms of how made, fits my creamer.
The exception to that is my creamer could not be described as 'very heavy', which this goblet is. I do have a piece of early Bohemian glass that is very small but extraordinarily heavy so I guess they mean heavy for size by that description.
https://www.cmog.org/artwork/agatine-beaker?image=0
https://d3seu6qyu1a8jw.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/styles/6_column_object/public/collections/0F/0FA92A4D-40CB-4461-93DE-990FA35ED5ED.jpg?itok=OTTsNlbx
The description reads as follows:
'PRIMARY DESCRIPTION
Transparent-translucent pale purple very heavy glass;
free- blown, gilded and enameled, and cut.
Composite foot consisting of a base disc with polished concave underside,
surmounted by a collar with sloping walls and beveled collar,
deep cup-shaped bowl;
the rough form of the object is probably molded and then very heavily cut and ground to form this complicated shape,
both collars are paneled (8 panels),
the bowl is also cut into 8 panels,
each panel having a central countersunk vertically oriented oval, in high relief, surmounted by arches, again in relief;
the two collars are accentuated on top by a gilded band of framed stars and single gilded lines,
the relief ovals are framed by gilded lines and surmounted by gilded leaves;
the rim of the bowl is gilded;
the space between the arches in relief and rim is occupied by a flower and leaf frieze in pale red, blue and green including especially red forget-me-nots and other flowers;
in reflected light the beaker appears purple and pink, with the base rim and the edges of the collar and the ovals appearing bluish opalescent.'
What is interesting is, that it is difficult on examining the creamer, to work out which part of the body is cased - the body looks as though there is no clear glass on it, but then you can see just on the facet cut collar and on the faceted 'skirt', that it is cased. This is similar in the purple goblet.
Also if you look at the pic of the goblet, the 'skirt' collar around the foot looks as though it was applied separately. The 'skirt' on my creamer looks the same way. But the internal side of the creamer goes right down to the bottom and flares out inside where the foot starts so it's an integral foot, presumably very thickly cased in that part of the jug perhaps or cased again after the body has been shaped, and then cut, and that is exactly as it looks on the goblet.
They describe the disc on the base of the foot as 'composite'. So it has been applied on the base.
The description of the finish on the base matches my creamer.
Basically it has been made in the same way as my jug.
I think I am now beginning to realise that photos of these agatin-opal glas goblets do not represent what they look like with light transmitted. I suspect they look very plain coloured as described by the Corning 'Transparent-translucent pale purple very heavy glass' and like the 'beigey' coloured one I've linked to until the light is reflected off them whence they become multicoloured. Whereas with mine, with light reflected it looks plain pink but with light transmitted it turns orange.
I think the creamer was made by Buquoy'sche Glashutte and I would guess might date a little earlier than I thought, so perhaps 1835-1840 ish.
m
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And I am wondering if the Transparent glass casing on the Corning vase might have been a neodymium glass? Perhaps that's how they made the Agatin-opal glas pieces in purple? and perhaps they reflect as blues and purples in reflected light because it has been cased in neodymium transparent glass over opalescent girasol glass?
It's different to mine which pink and I'm thinking gold-ruby glass plays a part in mine along with something else (arsenic? as mentioned by the British Museum description) making it turn orange in transmitted light.
Or.. it is faintly possible that mine is girasol glass cased in maybe a gold-ruby pink glass - I know that sounds ridiculous but the interior is so reflective it is completely impossible to tell and I assumed it was cased in clear. But then I don't know how it appear pink but then would turn orange in transmitted light. Perhaps the girasol glass interior with the gold ruby over makes it turn orange. Very curious.
Oh and mine is all faceted in 8 panels as mentioned about the goblet in the Corning.
I am pretty confident on the maker. I cannot see that there can be another maker.
I can see I am talking to myself again ;D
Is nobody else on here interested in early 19th century Bohemian glass?
m
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Just adding for information -
There is a pink bell with a gilded handle online. It looks to be solid colour uncased (similar pink colour to the jug as it looks on the black background in reflected light).
It appears currently top left on this pinterest link (sorry I can't track the original source):
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/307018899574621326/
The handle is very similar to this one
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/20419660_tischglocke
which is described as Russian.
There is a Russian bowl in the Hermitage that is the same solid pink (uncased) glass.
I do not think the shape of the creamer is a Russian shape and the creamer is cased, unlike the bowl on stand in the Hermitage and the bell which is like the one I've linked to above.
I am still sure of my attribution as Buquoy so far.
Further information:
I believe the one in the Corning and the three others I've found, are different to those described as Agate glass or Agatin glass or 'stone glass' from Buquoy.
The 'Agatin' glass or stone glass appear to be solid coloured (whether created in layers of different colours I don't know).
For example Dr Fischer describes one here:
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/9713661_24-an-agate-stone-glass-goblet-buquoysche-htten-geo
'An agate stone glass goblet Buquoy'sche Hütten, Georgethal or Silberberg, circa 1835 Purple, marbled, opalescent, cut and engraved glass with gold staffage. Friezes with acanthus, insects and blossom branches. 15.2 cm high This originally French aristocratic family came to Bohemia shortly before 1620. Stone glass was a glass of special strength, glance and impermeable to light and resembled more a precious stone than glass. The decoration of this type of glass was increased by gilding and cutting.'
The five I've linked to including the Corning piece are cased in transparent glass:
Corning purple goblet, beige goblet, blue goblet, grey greeny flakon, dark pink purple flakon (can't find link).
There do no appear to be any more around that I can find,that are made in this way with an opalescent opaline interior and then transparent exterior.
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On page 13 of this document from Walter Spiegl, I think (translation difficult :-[ ) that he mentions these transparent over opalescent glass pieces. It appears to say that they are similar to, or made in the same way (?) as the French Gorge de Pigeon pieces, but it appears to me that he is saying that the necessity of the thickness of the glass for cutting and perhaps the transparent overlay means they lose some of their 'girasol' effect. He mentions that in 1835 Buquoy exhibited in Vienna 'Agatin rosee-, Opal-,Opal margaritte-Glas'.
http://www.glas-forschung.info/pageone/pdf/lith.pdf
m
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This is a link to a
'Clear glass bottle covered with red glass, manufactured by Buquoy, before 1837. Bohemia, 19th century. Vienna, Technisches Museum (Technical Museum).
March 28, 2008 '
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/157412164
so they were using clear glass to case.
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Similar pieces in the catalogue here (from CMOG) too: http://www.cmog.org/library/formen-preise-von-glaserzeugnissen-der-meyrschen-glasfabriken-adolf-leonorenhein-boehmen - this pinky shade seems to be one of their colours too, so worth exploring.
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Anne, thank you.
Yes I have been looking at Adolfhutte glass and Meyr's but I can't get anything other than a one page on your link. I have seen glass from Annathal as well that used a pale pink. It seems to be one of their colours as an overlay. However, Spiegl refers in one of his documents, to some glass in Das Bohmische Glas BandII and appears to say it is all 'alabaster' glass not opaline glass, and seems to make the distinction that it is 'flat' and doesn't have a fiery colour to it.
However, I would like to explore further and I can't on your link :-[ i'm signed in but it still only gives me one page? Is that all there is do you know? There are no items on that page that have similarities to the jug that I can see :-\
Thanks
m
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You should see a black DOWNLOAD button on the top right side of the screen, m, which lets you download the whole catalogue (http://d3seu6qyu1a8jw.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/collections/3A/3A520D34-278A-4535-A890-1CE6DFB8931A.pdf) - I've done a screenshot of the page showing where the Download button is. Hope it helps. :)
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oh excellent thank you - I think I tried that before but my computer froze so nothing seemed to happen ::) I have it now.
Thanks :)
m
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Fascinating - 1832-1841 and I am sure I'm right on my dating for the creamer, but no match.
However... there are some extremely interesting pieces on there!! I have some other bits I'm researching and that is a real help.
Interestingly I'd come across a baby blue pair of perfumes that 'might' have been Annathal or Adolfhutte and had been wondering as they had some similarity with the creamer in some ways. But they aren't on there.
(Also I have no idea if Adolfhutte is the same as Johann Meyr but I'm thinking it is. I get so absolutely confused with the history of all these makers as their early 19th century names were different to their later names e.g. I 'think' Annathal became owned by Loetz? I think... don't quote me.
Thanks so much. That's a wonderful resource.
m
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1) This piece is a Buquoy becher described as '...ruby glass marbled with opal ...'
Note the stripes on the glass
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/99/f7/48/99f748e4ae10af0c531b6b4cc3411b72.jpg
I've many pictures of the jug with the 'opal' stripes showing although they are less obvious against the pink but have added a photo for comparison.
Note also that the becher is described as 'ruby glass'.
2) This perfume flakon I linked to earlier is also a Buquoy piece, also described as 'agathin (ruby glass marbled with opal), layered with colourless glass, ...'
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cd/db/2c/cddb2cf2a7188ab4c5f81d6ffa1498d8.jpg
This piece is also described as ruby glass. And it is indeed cased in 'colourless glass' (as I queried it might be, earlier in the thread) and as is the jug.
Source: Buquoy Glass in Bohemia 1620-1851 u(p)m pp79
3) In addition if you look at the picture I've attached of the jug, you can see the effect of the opaline (agathin) interior and the effect where it ends at the bottom inside the cased glass.
This is the same effect as that observed on the pieces I have linked to previously - one example being this one:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/30/7c/98/307c98a8ff84453b55f1adf482d1c516.jpg
I also feel convinced that the design of the cut 'shoulder' and the design of the faceted 'skirt' mimic the design of the fussbechers. I have not found similar in other makers goblets.
The very large polished pontil mark base that covers almost the entire base, also matches the description of the transparent covered, agatin-opal fussbecher in the Corning:
'Composite foot consisting of a base disc with polished concave underside, '
This together with the girasol effect and the marbled opaline pink interior cased in clear, makes me pretty sure this is a Buquoy piece of glass.
m
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There are many similarities in the panel cutting and design with this piece in the Moravia Galerie:
http://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/images/diela/MG./55/CZE_MG.U_20018/CZE_MG.U_20018.jpeg
I think it is dated 1830s (datace: 30. léta 19. stol.;inventární číslo: U 20018;
místo vzniku: Čechy)
Possibly 1830s for the pink dichroic creamer.
m
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Interesting becher in pink translucent glass cased in clear
listed as probably Annathal bei Schüttenhofen, 1850-1860.
The pink seems appears more intense than that on my creamer and I suspect it is not opalescent however worth adding for future reference:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/de-de/auction-catalogues/dr-fischer/catalogue-id-fischer10014/lot-49ad4f2e-8ca3-4847-9a86-a5b600ef0d61
also another piece here from Moser c.1880 with a similar pink translucent underlay cased in clear but a very different shape. This is more similar to the effect perceived on the creamer however I am sure the shape of the creamer could date it to first half 19th:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/de-de/auction-catalogues/dr-fischer/catalogue-id-fischer10009/lot-c9247b78-08e5-42d6-99bf-a4ac00ff9b8d
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These are very similar to the jug - if you're interested you will need to click and enlarge the image to see the similarities.
Looking at the colour of them also possibly dichroic given the tinge of peach to the pink. Also cased in clear,also with the white stripes down them.
Sold 21 March 2020 by Dr Fischer auction with the following description:
'Lot 457 | Two handle vases with an Oriental version of decor Two handle vases with an Oriental version of decor Colorless, pink collected glass, with side-mounted handles. Many faceted wall with ornamental decor for Arabian models in Gold. H. 36 cm. Comparable vases have been exported around 1870, among other things, by the count's Josephine glassworks in Szklarska poręba (Silesian) Schaffgot'.
Source: https://veryimportantlot.com/en/lot/view/zwei-henkelvasen-mit-orientalisierendem-dekor-303998'
https://veryimportantlot.com/en/lot/view/zwei-henkelvasen-mit-orientalisierendem-dekor-303998
https://veryimportantlot.com/cache/lot/303998/736061_1583339958-563x367_width_50.jpg?_=1583339958
So possibly Josephinenhutte
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Best example I have at the moment,but vases in this style and design were shown at the 1862 Exhibition
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/LARGE-1862-EXHIBITION-PRINT-ORNAMENTAL-GLASS-TABLE-VASES-BY-F-STEIGERWALD-MUNICH-/143680073688
And here
https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2010/essex-glass-garniture-off-to-france/
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better link here
http://carltonhobbs.com/portfolio-items/a-monumental-cut-glass-and-gilded-vase-of-alhambra-form-exhibited-by-wilhelm-hoffman-at-the-1862-london-international-exhibition/#jp-carousel-2806
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Link to a fantastic image of a Buquoy agatinglas becher - you can enlarge it brilliantly and clearly to see all the detail:
https://imkinsky.com/de/kaufen/ergebnisse/107/4.501/59995-fussbecher
My jug image link:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64586.0;attach=202723;image
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On pages 46 to 49, Hajdamach shows some pages from the Webb Richardson pattern book, c.1830s. I assume the colour is completely wrong, but have you noticed the similarity of the cutting on your jug to the jug shown middle left of plate 30? I have a salt or sugar that I think is from the same family as it wouldn’t look out of place on plate 37, and I think it looks very bohemian but it’s clear. Interesting, if nothing else!
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mm, jugs are quite difficult but I don't think that shape is at all similar :-[ The eye sees things so differently doesn't it though?
You know, I'm often wrong on these things probably because instinct is not always a good thing ;D but in my defence sometimes it's just a good place to start searching.
Sometimes it just comes down to looking at something and thinking there's something Bohemian about the cutting, the style, the colour etc. Or there is a design that just isn't Bohemian somehow. So as an example the jugs on page 56 of that CH book. In the drawings they are Richardson's, panel cut, green coloured in the actual drawings, and yes the right hand one does have a panel cut jutting out collar as does my pink jug. However, overall there's something not Bohemian about it if you see what I mean. And then when you look at the picture of the decanter on page 53 that is the decanter version of the green jug on the left on page 56. In real life it doesn't look Bohemian to me at all.
There is more of a problem with the items on page 57 of that book that explain this predicament quite well:
- The amethyst scent bottle is gorgeous - I wouldn't have known that was English but equally would have been wondering about Bohemian not being quite right. I might have thought it was French but the colour and cutting put me off, Bohemian maybe but the colour put me off. So I might have considered English perhaps eventually but more likely might have though Russian first because of the colour and the design and then the cutting (but the fact that Russian glass is rare and the stopper might not be Russian in style would put me off).
- The amber scent bottle I would have put as Bohemian but wondered why it was so clunky and wondered about the horizontal line cutting around the rim of the cornucopia. CH has it as probably French. That might explain the clunkiness (French style of that period appears to me to have a certain clunkiness about it) but I would never have put the foot as French so still might query that as French. That foot is Bohemian to me. So is the colour. The stopper is something that was used in Bohemian glass as well.
- And then there's uranium yellow cut glass bowl ... I've noted he does not say where he thinks that was made. I'm in many minds about that bowl ;D I love that bowl but cannot place it except to say the foot looks Bohemian to me but difficult to tell.
Conversely, my jug is pink cased in clear (probably not English then in my mind - but thinking Buquoy'sche glas as they were renowned for their development of amazing colours ); it's panel cut in a particular style all over that immediately says Bohemian Biedermeier period to me but could be later; has a foot cut in a particular way that is seen on many many bechers of that period (Bohemian), and has a large polished pontil mark (thinking Annathal bei Schuttenhofen - Bohemian). So at the end of the day there isn't anything about my jug that would make me look at English makers ... but I could be wrong!
Just my opinion but the problem is I think, that these coloured glass items were 'fashionable' all over Europe during this period. Fashionable being 'desirable' by buyers. They'd gone off clear glass of the 'death by a thousand cuts' style (see page 43 of that book for some lovely examples) although the critics were still pushing the clarity of the lovely English glass etc. v the Bohemian clear glass not judged to be as good quality.
English glassmakers had a problem with tax issues which constrained how well they could compete in making coloured glass etc.
The Bohemian's took the opportunity to make enormous developments in coloured glass and cutting styles to show the best of those colour and technique developments and exported tons of it. Many tons of it. Hence there are so many good examples around still.
French glassmakers were making the most beautiful coloured glass from early in the 1800s as well. I have one piece that is amazing. Check out also 'gorge de pigeon' glass. It was truly the most beautiful opaline. But that said, my heart belong to the Bohemian glass of this period. The colours, the cutting techniques, the engraving, the enamelling. All on one becher. Incredible stuff and beautiful designs. Breaking new ground.
I do think English glassmakers were developing coloured glass techniques and ideas but for whatever reason the first half of the 1800s belong to Biedermeier glass.
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One more comment :)
On English cased glass.
In the following article David Whitehouse makes a comment on the last page in Note 7. pp 260:
'The earliest evidence for the manufacture of cased glass in the United Kingdom is designs in an 1844 pattern book of W.H., B. & J. Richardson of Stourbridge. Richardson exhibited cased glass at the Exposition of British Industrial Art in Manchester 1845-1846: Charles R. Hajdamach, British Glass 1800-1914, Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK. '
My jug is cased and I believe is from an earlier period.
Source:
JOURNAL ARTICLE
John Biddle, Apsley Pellatt, and the Portland Vase
David Whitehouse
Journal of Glass Studies
Journal of Glass Studies
Vol. 54 (2012), pp. 259-261 (3 pages)
Published by: Corning Museum of Glass
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Interesting reply thanks :D I haven’t got my eye-in in anyway approaching your experience and tend to think anything deeply cut and colourful is bohemian, but some of what I read and see is sinking in. I seem to have acquired a small collection of bohemian (type?) glass.
As you had said about the colour on your jug in your research I wasn’t suggesting it was British as thought the colour ruled that out, but thought it was interesting how similar (in my eye ;D ) it was to your jug. With the comparison to the jug, middle left on Plate 30, it is a different shape being conical but I thought the cutting looked quite like yours being facet cut and with the raised cut ring around the body. Also, I thought the handle looked very similar in shape and being cut on the sides and possibly blended into the body. The treatment of the facets on the body each side of the lower handle attachment looks identical to yours. Although a different shape, it does have a recessed cut ring just above the bottom. I thought if you did a line drawing of your jug, it wouldn’t look out of place in the Webb Richardson pattern book...maybe in the space above the jug with a rounded bottom ;D
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I wouldn't say I was experienced in any way. There is just too much of it and I've seen precious few museum collections in real life. It comes as a surprise when something looks for example ethereal on screen only to see it in person and it weighs a ton. Or vice versa more often.
I have a lot of books though and love researching and my peculiar love is for coloured glass 1800-1850. Anything after 1850 and I'm not that interested unless it's 1910s-30s French/Czechoslovakian. So it's quite a narrow field of interest :-[
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Just updating with thoughts as I came across an interesting jug this evening (see Seite 2 von 6 Seiten)
https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2008-2w-sg-krug-lobmeyr-karaffe-osredek.pdf
Pressglas-Korrespondenz has it as:
quote
''Abb. 2002-4/300
Krug, Kat.Nr. 627
blaues Glas, geschnitten, H 24,5 cm
Osredek, Kroatien, 1840-1845
Sammlung Zagreb, Muzej za umjetnost i obrt, MUO 9257
aus Juras, www.muo.hr/bider/eng/epstak.htm'
Literaturangabe:
Maja Juras, Bidermajersko Staklo u Hrvatskoj
[Biedermeier-Glas in Kroatien], in: AusstellungsKatalog Zagreb 1997, s. PK 2002-2, Juras, BiedermeierGlas in Kroatien [Bidermajersko Staklo u Hrvatskoj]
und PK 2002-4, Juras, SG, Gläser aus der Glashütte
Zvečevo von Joseph Lobmeyr und Dragutin Sigmund Hondl in Slawonien sowie aus den Glashütten
Ivanovo Polje und Osredek bei Samobor
„Die Glasfabrik in Osredek bei Samobor wurde 1839
von der Gräfin Vilhelmina Kulmer gegründet und
arbeitete bis 1904.“ [Juras 1997] '
I think it has similarities in design with mine and with the
green jug in this post:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,64586.msg367197.html#msg367197
https://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/images/diela/MG./55/CZE_MG.U_20018/CZE_MG.U_20018.jpeg
My dating perhaps correct then for 1840s.
The blue jug is possibly linked to Lobmeyr production from my understanding of the translated info in PK.
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Following on from my thoughts above and linking back to this post on the thread, and Anne's lead about Johann Meyr and Adolfshutte and her link to the CMOG catalogue:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,64586.msg361974.html#msg361974
Pressglas-Korrespondenz information in this link appears to me to say that Meyr did work for Lobmeyr:
See Seite 16 - bottom of right hand column for the specific google translation para below:
https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2020w-sg-lithyalinvasen-form-geblasen-1815-1840.pdf
'Johann Meyr built the Eleonorenhain glassworks
[Lenora], production began in 1834 [Lněničková
1995, p. 18]. After the death of Johann Meyr in 1841
Wilhelm Kralik and Josef Taschenk took over
Adolfshütte and Eleonorenhain [Lněničková 1995, p.
19]. They worked primarily for the glass shop
Lobmeyr in Vienna...'
So a possibility to explore for my jug could be might be that the jug came from Johann Meyr but made for Lobmeyr design perhaps?