Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Andy on January 25, 2007, 10:02:59 PM
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Thought id pop this one on, its a super bit of glass, and i couldnt resist it at a local auction,
Im not sure they know a lot more than me at some auction rooms, and this was listed as a
20th C reproduction of an 18th Century Goblet, Im pretty sure they are right, and if not ive got
a huge bargain! but i wanted it for the nice item it is anyway!
If anyone has some points to make sure its a copy, id like to know, as ive never held a similar
genuine one!
And also, if its a copy , does anyone know when or where it may have been made, and who by??
Thanks Andy.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4702
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4701
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4700
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4699
Its definitely handmade, and fake or not, looks great on my shelf!
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In the real thing you would find that the foot is wider than the cup and that the foot is folded over. It looks as if this foot has been made in a clapper - which ensures it is perfectly round, flat and centered and indicates 19th or 20th century production. The real thing would also have a tiny pontil mark, and the rim would have been finished with tongs, not polished, ground or flame polished.
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Thanks Ivo,
just to add a little information, the foot is larger than bowl,
foot 11cm, bowl just 8cm. The foot is not round at all, quite out of shape! but
its definitely not folded.There is a broken pontil mark about 2cm round, and there is age wear
to the rim of foot whick looks genuine, (foot is slightly domed,conical? so wear just on very edge) and
quite a few small air bubbles.
Total height 19 1/2cm. The bowl is thicker glass than the foot,about 3mm and therim of bowl
is certainly nice and smooth.
19th Century would be nice. Any views on pattern? or manufacturer?
a couple of new photos.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4708
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4707
Thanks a lot,
Andy
ps looking in millers glass guide, quite a few with conical but not folded foot.
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There is no such thing as a "pattern" for old glass and I cannot even think of a country of origin for this item; I have seen similar things made in Sweden, in England, in Italy, in Bohemia and in northern Germany. I would guess it is early to mid 19th century... other than that it is a wonderful example.
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Thanks Ivo,
your last point "other than that it is a wonderful example" makes me happy! ;D
Cheers Andy
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Andy, compared with the tennis ball - it must be really a huge item?
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Hi Pamela,
its quite big, 7 5/8" (19.5cm) tall, the foots 4 inches wide, and a tennis ball sits in the bowl
quite snuggly! and its very pretty!
Andy
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I believe i may have some very good news on this old goblet,
i will redo, and add some larger pictures, and reveal what ive found out. ;D
In the meantime, does anyone have a copy of
Albert Hartshorne ,Old glass. A 19th Century publication, ?? (fig 48 , page 97)
Cheers
Andy
PS a clue. Southern Europe ;)
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Same photos as in 2007 , enlarged!
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I think im getting myself confused a bit here. I will start again,
I was looking at the interweb for details on 18th Century glass, as i bought a nice little
collection of early drinking glasses a few months ago, while googling about i was trying to
find a 19th Century book by Albert Hartshorne, I came across this link,
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CxULGcNgd74C&dq=Old+Glass+-+European+and+American+By+N.+Hudson+Moore&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=wJ6Voj_7oc&sig=XZvMUZGBRepz0uZ0iH4noh3CtEQ&hl=en&ei=wezuSpbBI97TjAfeubCZDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
The book is, Old Glass - European and American By N. Hudson Moore
if you go to this link, it may take a few moments to open, there is an illustration of a Goblet (fig 47 on page 94)
by La Grana de San Ildefonso , Spanish 18th Century,glassworks opened in 1725 info on pages 96 onwards.
Could i ask my friends on the GMB, when they have a moment, if they could have a look at this link,
and if anyone has a copy of the book by N Hudson Moore.
I think , from this info, that i probably have a nice old rare piece of 18th Century Spanish Glass ;D
The panels opinion on this piece would be very gratefully recieved,
Cheers
Andy
8)
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There is a similar goblet in "Ispanskoe Steklo" (the major Sal Ildefonso glass exhibition staged by the Hermitage in 1970) which is 20 cm, has a foot folded under and dated around 1775 - but impossible to say if the similarity is conclusive. It may just be the fashion of the time...
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Andy, the complete book is viewable online in the Internet Archive:
http://www.archive.org/details/oldglasseuropean000512mbp 8)
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Hi ,
I believe what you have here is an 18thc bohemian goblet around mid century , the fact that the foot is not folded is not really a problem , many continental and english glasses of this period could be either plain conical or folded , the rim looks to me to be fire polished , as i would expect it to be, I have several examples in my collection.Hudson Moore's book (which i have) is considered by most to be very innacurate with its attributions , with many items being attributed to Stiegel and San Ildefonso incorrectly, these items probably having been imported by Stiegel and resold, old glass books can be very misleading!!!!,
The 'Rijksmuseum' catalogues show many examples like yours attributed to Bohemia and germany, you may also like to look at Dr Fischers auctions ,in germany, again here you should find many similer examples ,
So in a nutshell , probably mid 18thc and not a copy and not Spanish , probably Bohemian with typical Bohemian engraving of the period , and if bought cheaply a great find , though never highly valuable at auction , a few hundred pounds would be reasonable to expect.
Hope this helps ,
Peter.
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Thanks for the responses,
Ivo and Peter, Im pleased that the opinion is probably mid 18th Century, although
the origin may be hard to confirm, I think it was the unusual pattern that made the small
auction house think it was probably a later repro, ive always thought it probably is 18thC ;D
I will have a look at the Rijksmuseum and Dr Fisher,
Peter, i think i paid about £30 or £40 , and i was very happy at that price , even if a repro ;D
Anne, that was a much better link than the one i had, as i was able to save , copy and print it out,
re copyright, as the book is circa 1930s, am i able to put a copy of the photo, and maybe text, on
the GMB????
Thanks again,
Andy
:clap:
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No because the copyright does have an owner, but you can put a link (http://www.archive.org/stream/oldglasseuropean000512mbp#page/n115/mode/2up)
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:mrgreen: £30 or £40 a bargain :clap: :hiclp: I am jealous :'( :cry:
very well spotted , lol want to do some buying for me ???? :thup:
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Thanks Peter,
I found the pics of your collection, nice stuff :o
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,29962.0.html
and had a look at the links you gave me, Dr Fischer auctions seem to get good prices for
the nice glass they sell.
I may sell this and a few other old bits next year, i will let you know ;)
Cheers
Andy
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Hi Andy ,
Thanks for your comments , of course the goblets are only a part of the collection ,the part that takes up the most space though ,look forward to any old bits you might be thinning out .
Cheers ,
Peter.