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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne E.B. on August 14, 2005, 03:28:22 PM
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I've just staggered home with this monster! :roll: It weighs over 3kg :? I bought it because I liked the black plinth and thought it might look good with a different piece of glass more inkeeping with my strange taste in glass. However, it is an interesting piece and I would like to know a little more about it. I've looked through my books, but can't find anything that resembles this piece, so hope someone can kindly help with my questions :lol: This follows on in a way from my "amber posy bowl with frog on plinth" thread and Glen, Adam and Gareth's interesting comments about plinths.
1. The bowl is 9" square at the top and 5.5" high. It fits perfectly into the base. Is this cut glass or press moulded? And how can I tell the difference? (I had previously described my Davidson amber posy bowl above, as cut glass, and Cathy kindly corrected me). The glass has a yellowish tinge to it, so does this indicate it is a specific type of glass?
There are no markings on the base to indicate the maker, so does anyone recognise who might have made it, and when?
2. The base has a deep recess and is stepped with ball feet. Again there are no markings to indicate the maker, unlike my Davidsons' posy bowl plinth. Would I be correct in calling this a base, rather than a plinth? (a stupid question I know :oops: but I would like to know the correct term, as this is very different in design from my Davidsons' one). And finally, (I can hear the cheers and sighs of relief:twisted:) - am I right in thinking that the glass used to make such plinths/bases is vitroporcelain?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but it drives me nuts not knowing :wink:
Regards - Anne E.B. :lol:
***Edited to indicate that I wasn't calling you "twisted", and that it should have been an emoticon!!!! :oops: :lol: :twisted: ***
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Hi Anne - I've got a few minutes so I'll try and answer a couple of the questions you have asked.
Is this cut glass or press moulded? And how can I tell the difference?
It looks like pressed glass, but that's just based on me looking at your photo. I don't recognise the design offhand, but I'll see if I can find it anywhere.
How to tell the difference between cut glass and press moulded? Pressed glass will have mould lines (where the parts of the mould come together). Even with good fire polishing (to smooth them and hopefully remove them) you can generally find a seam somewhere. Look also for characteristics of pressed glass, such as little extra "tags" of glass that might have extruded along a seam where the mould joints haven't made a tight fit. Or shear marks (a straight line) where the gob of glass was cut before it fell into the mould. There are lots of other features of pressed glass, but without diagrams and photos it gets tricky.
In my experience, cut glass has finer, sharper edges and more of a sparkle - but if the pressed glass is good quality, it can be challenging to tell.
The yellowish tinge may be caused by too much arsenic in the soda lime glass batch - I think this is what Adam Dodds explained in the past anyhow. I am sure that if Adam gets the chance to reply to your question he will give you a much better answer than I can.
Re. the black base......well my understanding of a plinth is that it raises the item (vase, bowl etc) up to showcase it. Your black base seems to do the opposite, or am I seeing things? (It's probably my perception that's up the wall!) What would happen if you turned the base the other way around? Would the bowl still fit?
I would call the glass "black". Vitro-porcelain was Sowerby's name for their glass that imitated the appearance of porcelain (ceramic).
All the above is just my opinion(s). I'm sure you'll get lots more (better) replies. :lol:
Glen
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Re. the black base......well my understanding of a plinth is that it raises the item (vase, bowl etc) up to showcase it. Your black base seems to do the opposite, or am I seeing things? (It's probably my perception that's up the wall!) What would happen if you turned the base the other way around? Would the bowl still fit?
Glen
Oooooh! how embarrassing! :oops: It's me thats well and truly up the wall. I'm cringing behind my cushion at this very moment! :oops: I just assumed that the balls were the feet and never tried it the other way round. It fits like a glove the other way round, and the balls are cut away at an angle to hold the base of the bowl. It now looks so different :roll: I've taken a picture as it was intended to be displayed. (The maker didn't take account of the likes of me being cretin level) :P :roll: :wink: .
Thanks for your helpful comments. When I've overcome by embarrassment, I will check for any signs of seams/tags.
Regards - Anne E.B.
http://tinypic.com/ajusew.jpg
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The maker didn't take account of the likes of me being cretin level
Heck Anne, that's the level I usually operate at. I prefer it 'cos it's much easier working at that level as there isn't such a big distance to fall. :lol:
Seriously - your bowl looks absolutely splendid. It's a real show-stopper. I'm thinking Czech, but then - the glass world can always surprise.
Glen
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Looks great now Anne! :wink: (http://www.smileys.ws/sm/grinning/00000021.gif)
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Thanks Glen and Max for your support. Its so kind of you to not mock the afflicted :lol: :P :wink: and yes, it looks fabulous, and even better when turned at an angle with one corner facing. I am now punching my cushion with delight. You might call it a whooppeee cushion! :lol: I will be interested to see if it is actually Czech.
Max, your orthodontically challenged emoticon has just reminded me. Was it you or Leni that tests glass with your teeth? Well, I put it to the test this morning on an old necklace (tiny lampwork birds) that I bought. They must have thought I was crackers! but it worked! :P
Anne E.B. :wink:
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Wow! Anne it does look fabulous on the plinth now. I don't recognise the design either but if you decide to throw it out I'll happily give it a good home! :lol:
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Was it you or Leni that tests glass with your teeth? Well, I put it to the test this morning on an old necklace (tiny lampwork birds) that I bought. They must have thought I was crackers!
It's Leni that tests glass with her teeth :lol: Were you testing the birds too see if they were plastic Anne? I'm not sure I'd be able to tell anything from doing that. Since I had the front four crowned, everything feels pretty odd these days. :roll: :D
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How to tell the difference between cut glass and press moulded? Pressed glass will have mould lines (where the parts of the mould come together). Even with good fire polishing (to smooth them and hopefully remove them) you can generally find a seam somewhere. Look also for characteristics of pressed glass, such as little extra "tags" of glass that might have extruded along a seam where the mould joints haven't made a tight fit. Or shear marks (a straight line) where the gob of glass was cut before it fell into the mould. There are lots of other features of pressed glass, but without diagrams and photos it gets tricky.
In my experience, cut glass has finer, sharper edges and more of a sparkle - but if the pressed glass is good quality, it can be challenging to tell.
The yellowish tinge may be caused by too much arsenic in the soda lime glass batch - I think this is what Adam Dodds explained in the past anyhow. I am sure that if Adam gets the chance to reply to your question he will give you a much better answer than I can.
Everything Glen says is correct, but the middle paragraph is the most straightforward way of telling the difference. Some modern pressed glass is extremely high quality and that can be difficult. Glen's first para. is the sort of stuff you might use for back up if the article is difficult. This item is obviously pressed because :-
a) all the "cut" bits are well rounded, as Glen suggests,
b) no one would waste the hours of work involved in cutting a piece like this if it were made of soda-lime glass (the yellow tint is a fault which MAY be caused by too much arsenic and would only occur in soda-lime),
c) conversely, if the bowl had been cut it would have been made in a full lead crystal and would have shown brilliant sparkle and rainbow-like flashes of colour, partly due to the inherent properties of lead crystal and partly because all the cut edges and corners would be well defined and not rounded off.
For the pedants, I know that it would be possible to produce the yellow tint in glasses other than soda lime (deliberately), but please don't spoil a good story with inconvenient facts!
Adam D.
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Anne E B ........ Plus Experts please
Just out of curiosity when you hold your base up to the light is the tint mauve or blue??........
Could one of the glass experts please explain how this blue or mauve glass looks black....and.... might seem like a dumb question but then its certainly not beyond me...but is there a truly black glass.
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
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Anne E B ........ Plus Experts please
Just out of curiosity when you hold your base up to the light is the tint mauve or blue??........
Regards
Gareth
Morgan48
Well I'll be....! Its definitely mauve/purple Gareth :?
Regards - Anne.
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At risk of embarrasing myself (if I'm wrong), but I believe this would be called black amethyst. I understand that true black was not possible to make at the time so they used this as the next best thing. I'm assuming that black glass can now be made, but I'm sure someone will put me straight on that.
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, but I believe this would be called black amethyst.
Hi Bubbles
Most of mine show amethyst when subjected to light but I do have a couple of "black" ones that , when held up, are quite a rich and a definite blue colour.
Regards
Gareth
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I thought black was created using an overload of almost any other colour, which is why black pieces look a different colour held up to the light.
I also have an idea the most commonly used colour to create black has something to do with potassium. I think I need some expert input to get this straight in my head too, thanks for bringing it up Gareth. 8)
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My understanding of black glass is that it is created by the addition of cobalt with copper or manganese, or simply by adding a lot of colorants together.
Purple is made by the addition of manganese, nickel or neodymium.
In my experience much apparently black glass will show deep purple (or deep blue) when held up to an intensely strong light source.
I have been told that some welding visors are made from black amethyst glass to protect the eyes from the intense light.
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I can't see how a true black would be possible - the thinnest sliver would be bound to show some colour.
Potassium doesn't come into it, Max. Max and Glen yes, there will be fancy combinations of colourants which will make black, but why bother? Gross excess of almost any colourant will make what for practical purposes will be black. The cheapest is (or was) manganese, so that is what was commonly used. It's only if you are using much smaller amounts of manganese to give an obvious purple that you would play about with potassium replacing some sodium to give a prettier colour.
Adam D.
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I think I might have found Anne's bowl:
<photo edited out until permission granted>
Mould 450, 16th September, 1950.
I recently came across an article about Century Glass, who were based in Edmonton, London. I was only really skimming it until I saw this pic (above) and thought 'Hmm...I recognise that...' :D
'Century Glass was a previously unknown Glasshouse, until a ledger was donated to the Shipley Art Gallery in Gateshead. The spine was labelled Century Glass, and from the Pottery Gazette Reference book of 1956, this was identified as the trade name of the Century Glassworks Ltd. based at the Angel Factory Colony, Angel Road, Edmonton'.
I do have more information, but feel unsure about whether I can crib someones article onto this forum. :?
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FASCINATING.
Would love to know more.
Glen
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Ohhh well spotted Max... t'other Anne will surely be thrilled. ;)
I've never heard of Century Glass and it's not listed in Ivo's A-Z book. Does the article give working dates Max? Also, can you post the source of the article you were reading please?
As to cribbing from the article, if it's recent then consent to reproduce in part or all may be possible? If not, then extract the facts (facts are not copyrightable... it's the way in which they are presented that is) from the piece and post those. :)
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Dear Anne and Glen
I read the article about 'Century Glass' in the Glass Circle News, dated 2nd June, 2005. Funny how each time I re-read those things, I find something else of interest! I think it's probably because my base interest in types of glass is slowly expanding - which is mostly down to this board. :D
I've dropped 'The Glass Circle' a line and asked if I can quote from their article - I don't think I want to get on the wrong side of them :shock: , esp as a very new and shiny member of their society! :shock: :wink: :D
http://www.glasscircle.org/
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I think I might have found Anne's bowl:
<photo edited out until permission granted>
Mould 450, 16th September, 1950.
I recently came across an article about Century Glass, who were based in Edmonton, London. I was only really skimming it until I saw this pic (above) and thought 'Hmm...I recognise that...' :D
'Century Glass was a previously unknown Glasshouse, until a ledger was donated to the Shipley Art Gallery in Gateshead. The spine was labelled Century Glass, and from the Pottery Gazette Reference book of 1956, this was identified as the trade name of the Century Glassworks Ltd. based at the Angel Factory Colony, Angel Road, Edmonton'.
I do have more information, but feel unsure about whether I can crib someones article onto this forum. :?
WOW - Well done Max! :lol: Just got back from Falmouth, so what a nice surprise :P Just about to unpack :? (how sad is that ... the first, nay, second thing I do, after making a cuppa - is to catch up on the GMB :roll: ) Will get back and digest your findings.
Anne E.B. :lol:
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The image has disappeared, so here it is again.
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Cross link to more info http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2375.0.html