Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Lustrousstone on August 26, 2006, 04:13:16 PM
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I don't normally go for cut glass but this one caught my eye with its vertical and diagonal cuts. 8 inches tall, star cut (16) base, plenty of base wear, lovely clarity, colour and weight. Chamfered top edges, inside and out. Any ideas as to who and when please. Click to zoom
(http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0576.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0576.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0585.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0585.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0587.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0587.jpg)
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Interesting that you mention chamfered edges on the rim - I have always tended to back away from chamfering, assuming it meant that the dealer had had the piece reground.
Is it also used legitimately on some vases?
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I would say so in this case, it's extremely well done and fire-polished. It came from a local hospice charity shop and I suspect it came from the original owner straight to the shop. It's on an estate with a lot of elderly people.
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Hello,
I don't understand the second comment about the vase being fire-finished, surely that would mean the rim should have been rounded by flame?
Although it is not easy to tell the detail from photos, the work to the rim appears to be original with a cut and polished top having narrow chamfering either side to prevent chipping to the edge. The vase also appears to have been acid polished as the cutting seems less crisp than when finished by hand, ie not 'sharp' to touch - if anything slightly rounded on the edge of the cuts forming the pattern and indeed the rim. Would that be the case? If so, in my experience this would date the vase later as hand cutting and finishing has become far too expensive for most companies.
Presumably there is no acid etched factory mark to the base?
Nigel
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The fire polishing remark is my ignorance, it's acid polished. I didn't realise fire polishing was for pressed glass not cut as well. The chamfering is certainly original
I can't see a mark anywhere. Any idea of date please
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Nigel, going back to my comment about re-grinding of rims, I would assume therefore that any original chamfering would have been machine controlled and perfectly level? And that I should therefore only be cautious of chamfering that is uneven?
I see a LOT of Whitefriars that has chamfered top rims, and I am pretty sure that they never did that. Is that correct, or am I missing out on some bargains?
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Most cutting/grinding/polishing is done by hand. Irregularities often suggest a repair.
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Lynne,
The chamfering would have been done by hand, certainly in the case of Whitefriars. Frank is right that noticable irregularities can indicate repair work, however one should also consider the fact that work was done by eye and would be better or worse according to the experience and/or accomplishment of the cutter doing the work.
Often when inspecting original work it is therefore possible to detect irregularities that are quite correct. For instance, sometimes on an item with say a square top, the thickness of the chamfer might vary along each of the sides, but the variation would be acceptable within tolerancies in the factory's quality control.
Of course if the widths vary dramatically it is pretty well certain that some poor restoration has occured.
On the other hand if a restorer takes care in their work, or they are instructed to do the work to the original tolerances by the collector or dealer, how can any of us tell what may or may not have been done? :shock: :shock:
Nigel
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Nigel, would some Whitefriars coffin vases have been chamfered?
I see plenty of perfect straight ground tops, and then the odd chamfered one. I;ve always assumed the chamfered ones have had edge chips taken off.
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Hi,
Assumption, eh? Very dangerous thing when it comes into contact with glass :shock: :(
Perhaps the merit about glass is that much of it is not marked and much of it does not conform to prescribed parameters. It seems that when characteristics are attributted to a given company that is when the trouble starts :shock:
Never make assumptions, and never accept that because a company is known to have particular ways that it makes glass that it might not employ other ways to achieve that goal.
One of the truely great things about glass that attracted me to collect, and then deal, is that it is necessary to use a range of diagnostic possibilities - rather than have a back stamp, as with pretty well all types of china/pottery. It's far more of a challenge and far more interesting as a result :wink:
Happy diagonosing, Nigel
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Ah, but assumptions DO have to be made from time to time..... :lol:
and then I come on here and check them all out, and have them dashed to the ground!
I was making assumptions purely in terms of damage repairs rather than anything else. I totally agree that for lots of glass, various parameters have to be considered, and then an educated (or sometimes totally wild) guess has to be made... 8)
But there is an old saying I try very hard to keep in mind,
when in doubt, leave it out...
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Hmmm, yes, but another of couple sayings might be worth a thought:
"Faint heart never won fair lady", which can apply to an array of things, and, probably more appropriate, might be, "No-one made a profit without first making a loss".
Without making mistakes (which many of the people who give advice on these boards have done) you really cannot learn and gain confidence.
Maybe, assumptions, if made, should only be made from an educated view point, since, as you admit, they are only dashed to the ground when you come here :shock: :? Surely what I said about repairs tells you that even the best of us can be fooled if the repair is done well? So, no, assumptions cannot even be made there.
For instance there is a unique vase that was sold at auction. It fooled a number of 20th century glass authorities. The problem? What everybody is thinking is the unique part is in fact a 2006 'addition' :shock: :? :shock: However, with a little sideways thinking it doesn't take much to work out that it is wrong and why.
You may think me hard-hearted, but I believe if you re-read what I said before there are answers for you there :D
Nigel
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8)
Nigel, I always think the best of people...
You may feel you are hard hearted, but I don't think so, just hard nosed maybe.... :lol:
I have sold ceramics for much longer than glass, but I love my glass, and I want to carry on buying and selling, and I am learning all the time. Whilst I take your point about having to make a loss before you make a profit, I don't want to ruin my reputation whilst I am about it! So for me, if I am not absolutely 100% sure that an item is right, I will tend to leave it alone until I have more "touchy feely" experience under my belt. If this means others take the profits, well, good for them. There is more than enough profit around in this world for all of us.