Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 08:05:35 AM

Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 08:05:35 AM: I have several items with the "butterfly" mark which I have always been lead to believe are Baccarat but I keep seeing references to Hoffman in association with this mark???? I have also seen a listing that said Sabino??
:?: :shock:
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Sklounion on May 17, 2006, 08:17:22 AM: Hi,
You are not wrong, Heinrich Hoffmann, Gablonz (now Jablonec nad Nisou) used this emblem as a mark and several variants are known.

Baccarat, used paper labels, from 1860-1936 (Jackson, "20th Century Factory Glass") which consisted of line drawings of three pieces of glass.

Images would help in eliminating makers.

Regards,
Le Casson
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Frank on May 17, 2006, 10:06:03 AM: Hoffmann are the only glassworks to use the butterfly without text or other design elements. Muller Frere and Daum used the butterfly as part of the mark.

Baccarat never used a butterfly in any references I have.
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 08:55:10 PM: I don't mean a butterfly as a seperate mark but incorporated in the design as in this box, listed as baccarat in antiques trade gazzette. You cannot make it out from this picture but there is a butterfly in the bottom right hand corner, i know because i have one.

Also which Hoffman would we be talking about.

http://i4.tinypic.com/zxml9k.jpg

:? :wink:
Ian
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Lustrousstone on May 17, 2006, 09:06:06 PM: Heinrich Hoffmann. Have a look at Pamela's site http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/aschenbecher/ascher.html, third set of pictures down. Click to see large picture
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:07:53 PM: http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/aschenbecher/02420.html
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/aschenbecher/02416.html

Hi Ian, do these help? Hoffmann Gablonz
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:09:05 PM: Christine, lovely to meet you in this thread! :D
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Lustrousstone on May 17, 2006, 09:09:39 PM: Snap Pamela. I was just thinking you'd been quiet lately :D
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 09:15:33 PM: Great thanks.
Here are a couple more I have.
I have been sorting out the loft and the garage its like christmas all over again finding stuff i have not seen for years.
http://i4.tinypic.com/zxnt5y.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/zxntj7.jpg

The amethyst is my favourite, on this one the design is in relief.

:D :D
Ian
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:17:04 PM: SugarRock Le Casson - thank you!
Ian: the box should be traced in Hoffmanns' catalogues - a better photo could help to tell you the item #
Christine: :? :twisted: thank you so much - it is the most busiest week of my life and I do not know why - really :roll:
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 09:17:33 PM: These are boxes by the way.
:oops:
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:19:39 PM: http://i4.tinypic.com/zxnt5y.jpg
is this one for sale please :D
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:20:46 PM: in the affirmative we move directly to another level here, Frank!
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Frank on May 17, 2006, 09:22:04 PM: Quote from: "redheat4"
Llisted as baccarat in antiques trade gazzette.

Aaargghh, they should try harder!

Love those boxes, I can feel an eBay search coming on :D
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 09:22:41 PM: Not at the moment, I am just enjoying them for now, when I am ready to sell I will contact you.

:(
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:24:33 PM: Ian, please enjoy them - always! It's the best you can have!
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 09:30:49 PM: Can you tell me where I can find out more about Mr Hoffman.

:wink:

Ian
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:34:26 PM: Poooh, Ian, I'm not good in history, but a lot of these kind contributors are! Maybe Frank and Ivo and many more may leed you to their sites to read more :?
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:36:13 PM: perhaps just google
hoffmann schlevogt gablonz pressglas
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: redheat4 on May 17, 2006, 09:40:36 PM: Thanks for all your help.

:D :D :D
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Frank on May 17, 2006, 09:54:26 PM: I would recommend Ivo's book, which covers the basic details of ten Hoffmann's including Josef. He is quite important. The factory in Gablonz was set up in 1900 for pressed glass. Curt Schlevogt got involved c1934. For some reason that bit is not in Ivo's book, his life looks very complicated with all of THE names in glass mentioned. Most of the info I have is in German which I cannot translate easily and is in Hartmann, Glasmarken Lexicon. Unlike Ivo's book it costs an arm and a leg.

Miller's Glass Fact File a-z
a contemporary guide to artists, factories and techniques
by Ivo Haanstra, (C) 2001 Octopus Publishing Group Ltd.
ISBN 1840004290 retail UKP 7,99 (USA $12,95)

You can find a link to it in Ivo's post in our author's thread http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2066.0.html

If you find anything interesting on-line, do please post a link here.
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: pamela on May 17, 2006, 09:59:17 PM: Thank you, Frank, that's totally what I expected and hoped :wink:
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: Frank on May 18, 2006, 10:55:04 AM: This listing has some info, not sure how accurate. Pricey for the damage, other pieces of Hoffmann seem to be selling for a lot less.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7415794099
Title: Butterfly mark
Post by: argo on May 28, 2006, 08:47:02 PM: http://i4.tinypic.com/zxnt5y.jpg

I have the same design only in clear glass and oval shaped
can anyone tell me what it is worth