Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Glen on March 05, 2005, 03:47:32 PM
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Can anyone help with any information or ideas about a splendid pressed glass Crown that I have recently acquired? I have posted a photo and information about it on my website. If you go to http://www.carnival-glass.net and then click on the article link (centre page) called Mystery Crown in Pressed Glass.
It's a magnificent item, and I've gone through just about every text source I have to no avail. Maybe someone has seen one like it before and can help. And by the way, it glows like crazy under UV light.
Glen
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Glen:
I have seen just two of these, as I recall. Like you, I haven't found any reference to them, nor do I know what event they were commemorating. They are not in either Notley, nor in Strange & Rare.
As they don't seem particularly common, I just wonder if they were Edward VIII souvenirs that somehow got into circulation just before the abdication broadcast on 12 December 1936. Presumably if this is the explanation, the main production stock would have been broken and recycled.
Bernard C. 8)
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It is a bit difficult to tell which crown it is but I think the band on the lid looks like St Edwards Crown which was rebuilt for QEII coronation. Here are a couple of links which might help you decide. If it proves to match one it would probably have needed Royal approval so that should be traceable.
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-crown.html
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/crowns.htm
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Bernard and Frank - thank you both so much for your help and advice. I'm checking out your suggestion, Bernard - and I'm following up both the links you gave me Frank (most interesting). Again, thank you so much.
Glen
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More thoughts. If it was Edward VIII (or George VI), then you can eliminate two of the big four British coloured pressed glass factories capable of producing this souvenir in quantity for Empire-wide sales.
Davidson seem to have already had their Edward VIII souvenir worked out, the No. 314 Grecian Loving Cup Rd. No. 816983, registered just three days before the abdication broadcast on 9 December 1936. See http://www.cloudglass.com for the George VI coronation version, sold as a boxed set with plinth. Had Davidson produced this crown souvenir, why was it not registered? Also I am sure that Chris and Val Stewart would have come across some reference to it by now.
It cannot be Bagley as it is not in the photograph of their Edward VIII souvenirs published in a late 1936 PG.
Bernard C. 8)
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Hi Bernard, Glen,
I think you can rule out Edward VII. All of the Edward souvenirs produced by the UK glassmakers are well documented, there being numerous features/adverts in the Pottery Gazette. Also all (I think) of the ones made by UK manufacturers featured the head of Edward VII. When he abdicated, the designs changed to feature the heads of George and Elizabeth. The crown used also differs from the one on your powder jar.
All official souvenirs of the coronation sold in the UK had to be made in the UK and I think approved by a committee.
As your example has no writing, then it probably was not made as a souvenir of Royal event.
Another glass mystery!
Regards
Chris
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Chris:
I may well be wrong, but I always understood that controlled official souvenirs were all those featuring portraits of the monarchs, and that all the other paraphernalia of royal events such as flags, bunting, special packaging of commodities such as tea and biscuits, and glass crowns were never controlled in the same way, only having to be legal and decent in the same way as everything else sold to the general public.
Also how far did the committee's powers extend? UK only? + colonies? + dominions?
Bernard C. 8)
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Bernard and Chris - thank you so much for your information and your thoughts. I'm really grateful to you, as this item really has got me pondering. I am digesting your information and suggestions - lots to consider there.
One thing I'd be grateful for your thoughts on - in fact anyone's thoughts on - is what could its intended function have been? We've had suggestions including powder jar, covered sugar, bonbonniere and even pot pourri holder. But my two favourite ideas are flower holder or jewel box.
The reason I thought it might be a jewel box is that I saw one of these items some years ago when I was at an antique fair. It's the only one I have ever seen and I only saw it for a few moments. I was approaching a stall when I caught a glimpse of the crown as the stall holder placed it on the table top and then seconds later, as I dashed to get to it, I saw someone else grab it ahead of me. Money quickly exchanged hands and I was left weeping. :(
Now the thing is - the stall was actually a jewelry stall - full of hatpins, brooches, necklaces and rings. No other glass - just the crown. It occurs to me now that maybe the stall holder had acquired it while purchasing jewelry. The idea of putting your own jewels inside a crown seems possible. Does this have the ring of possibility, do you think?
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Hi Glen,
How about a hatpin holder? That would appear to fit the style and would be an apt use for a crown shaped container... a designer with a sense of humour perhaps?
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Glen, I've been thinking about that inner circular wall in the lid and the holes. If it was for jewellery, the holes would let in dust, so it can't be that. However, if it was for hatpins, the inner wall would help stop them all getting intertwined in the centre. A thick fabric-covered felt pad in the bottom would stop the hatpins getting blunt (and would clean the blood off if you had had trouble with your aim!).
Can you find any hint of hatpin damage anywhere?
I'm only a grumpy old man ... quite unforgivable of me to express an opinion in such a mysterious area. What you really need is a grumpy old gal with hatpin experience!
Oops, I see Anne got there first, while I was warming up my lunch. That's two votes for hatpins.
Bernard C. 8)
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I'm only a grumpy old man ... quite unforgivable of me to express an opinion in such a mysterious area. What you really need is a grumpy old gal with hatpin experience!
Oops, I see Anne got there first, while I was warming up my lunch. That's two votes for hatpins.Bernard C. 8)
Make that three! I was about to post when I saw Anne's reply and then Bernard's!
I guess that makes Anne & me the afforesaid grumpy old women with hat-pin experience :lol:
Leni
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Anne, Bernard, Leni - do you know, I think you are right. It makes perfect sense and it's about the right size to take a range of sizes of hatpins. I had reckoned the interior wall was to stop flower stems from moving and slipping inside. But hatpins. That's SO much more believable. And yes, I can even see a couple of long thin marks on the interior base that could conceivably have been made by hatpins
I had also thought that the holes would allow jewelry to get dusty, and for the same reason it couldn't be a covered sugar or a powder box. But yes, I do believe the three of you are the charm! You have had a EUREKA Moment (hope you enjoyed it :lol: ) Thank you all so much for your help. I'm really grateful.
One more point, someone suggested to me today that Matthew Turnbull might have been the maker. Any thoughts?
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Glen - This is only a gut feeling, but I doubt Turnbull. I've always thought of them as producers of cheap and nasty stuff - they certainly were during the short period when "my" era overlapped with theirs. Your crown looks too good to be theirs but I emphasise that, for all I know, 19th century Turnbulls might have been brilliant.
Adam D.
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Glen, I happened across a reference to a book on Hatpins and Hatpin Holders - it's by Lillian Baker, ISBN 0764304852, and there's a copy listed on eBay at the moment (4532502371) - it may throw some light on your crown holder possibly? HTH :)
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I guess that makes Anne & me the afforesaid grumpy old women with hat-pin experience :lol:
Leni
Heh heh heh I'll go along with that Leni! :lol:
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A very strange thing happened. I posted a "thank you" to Anne and Adam on this thread, and it has vanished. So, I'll do it again .....
Adam, many thanks for your input and your thoughts re. Turnbull. I appreciate it and respect your knowledge and experience.
Anne, many thanks for the tip and your help. Much appreciated.
Glen
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Strange it should vanish, someone else lost two postings yesterday too. Perhaps we had a gremlin in the database.
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Perhaps it was that THING in the Red Glass Bottle that scared Ivo so! :twisted:
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Glen,
Cannot find your crown article.
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Frank - I took the article down off my website - I was running out of space and needed to put a whole lot more Carnival stuff up.
However, there is no doubt that my crown is the same as the one in that eBay auction. I have contacted many people with regard to the crown and I still haven't come up with the "final answer" - lots of questions still remain. I'll post a comment on the new thread "Bagley - George and Mary Trinket Bowl"
Glen
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Glen
Here is a recent CROWN that had a strange marking!!! The inside bottom is marked BACCARAT. I asked a friend of mine who has one of these in vaseline glass, and there was no BACCARAT marking on the inside. The diamond lozenge seems to be the same.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140105953063 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140105953063)
Dave Peterson
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass
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;D ;D ;D So now the famous Baccarat is revealed to have registered their designs in the UK ;D ;D ;D Oh dear Totally WEIRD!
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.....or a blatant case of ripping off the original designer!!
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Glen, you wouldn't have a picture of your mystery crown tucked away somewhere?
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That will be
here (http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/PGCrown.html) Mod: Link dead
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I have know idea who made the crown but I have seen one in amber at a fair twice in the last month and had a chance to give it a good once over , not having read this topic would have said no earlier than the the 1930's
Roy
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Thanks Christine, Roy.