Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: catshome on March 16, 2007, 05:50:30 PM
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I wondered who might have made this and when, and what it was for. My guess would be 1920/1930, and a table centre as an alternative to a posy ring maybe? 1.75" high.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10086/smallerDSCN0960.jpg
Thank you for looking
Cat
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Hi Cat
I always believed they were Victorian and they would have came with some type of frame or holder, I think the frame's may have been made out of glass rods and wired together
regards roy
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Cat — Roy was correct. The whole wonderfully eclectic assembly seems to have been an exclusive specialism of catalogue retailers Silber & Fleming, who listed it along with many other crystal rod supported items under TABLE ORNAMENTS in their c.1890 catalogue, reprinted some years ago by Wordsworth Editions as The Silber & Fleming Glass & China Book, ISBN 1-82536-944-1.
It is illustrated in full colour overflowing with small flowers. No prices are shown, as I believe that this was both a wholesale and retail catalogue, so appropriate price lists would have been issued to each market sector. Accompanying text:-
5029 JARDINIÈRE. Formed of crystal glass bars strongly bound together with silver-plated wire, a boat-shaped glass receptacle for natural or artificial flowers. The plateau is of silvered glass with bevelled edge, mounted on a solid base, covered with maroon-coloured velvet.
DIMENSIONS OF JARDINIÈRE. Height — 4". Length — 18½". Width — 4½".
DIMENSIONS OF PLATEAU. Length — 17". Width — 3¾". Thickness about 1".
Bernard C. 8)
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Further thoughts:-
Several manufacturers were involved — the whole almost certainly assembled in Silber & Fleming's workshop.
We know that S&F sourced from many if not most of the major English glass houses, so that doesn't help. However, we know that S&F also bought in the standard 3+1 and 6+1 deluxe locking epergne blocks, launched some time, possibly many years, before November 3, 1880. These were precision-made to an industry standard fitting, so were almost certainly made by only one glassworks and supplied to all the others. I am confident that the same glassworks also made your boat-shaped flower trough.
Again, we know that all these mirror bases (and wall mirrors — see Gulliver p.196) were made by just one major mirror manufacturer and supplied to all the glass houses. Again, attribute one and we've attributed them all.
The crystal rods should be easiest to attribute as they are of such amazing precision and quality. I think they are of too high a quality to have been made for S&F, so, what were these rods originally made for? Or, to put it another way, what was the raison d'être of the existing precision technology that S&F tapped into? Clocks, barometers, optics, weights & measures, military, or something else?
Bernard C. 8)
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Hello Roy and Bernard,
I'm having a lot of trouble picturing the item you both describe. Bernard - if you have that book, would you be able to email me a picture of the illustration you refer to? Maybe I'll be able to get a bit further once I see what I'm dealing with!
Many thanks
Cat
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... would you be able to email me a picture of the illustration you refer to? ...
Sorry — I was working from a badly faded second generation photocopy (the reproduction catalogue pages are out of copyright).
Anyway, I would encourage you to do the same as I do. Either buy the book or borrow it from your library. You will be doing a great service to glass publishing. The more we borrow books from the library, the higher the proportion of library service spend will go on glass books. And the more British Library's interlibrary loan lending division at Boston Spa will spend on their stock of glass books. Which, eventually, will make glass publishing more financially attractive, resulting in more books. Cost to you? Some libraries do it free, others make a charge for the postage on the notification postcard, others charge a nominal fee, usually £1.00. Whatever, it's excellent value.
Warning. Always check any rare or expensive book for completeness before accepting it. Such books have usually been checked and will be accompanied by a list of defects. One of BL's two? lending copies of Ysart Glass has four pages missing at the centre of a thread-sewn section. Check for and reject this copy. However, if they have made the unfortunate error of breaching copyright by replacing these four pages with a colour photocopy, accept the book and let Frank know.
Bernard C. 8)
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Ahhhh..............the library..........Bernard I honestly never thought of that. I've spent almost £200 on books in the last 6 months and simply couldn't afford another one at the moment. It just didn't occur to me to try the library! Off to check availability right now...........
Thank you as ever
Cat
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Oh dear. They don't have this. The closest that came up was The Victorian pattern glass & china book : the classic Victorian illustrated pattern catalog of English and foreign ornamental tableware, glassware, and decorative household goods
Publisher New York : Arch Cape Press, c1990. Showing 1 copy but I rang and they said it was no longer available.
Is this the same book? It keeps coming up as an option when I search for the Silber & Fleming Glass & China book........
I've started emailing sellers of this book - might have to bite the bullet - but I'm a little concerned if it's a book that gives something like a wholesaler's list of items, rather than actual maker's names, it's only going to help with a rough date but not take me any further.
I noticed in Lattimore's "English 19th Century Press-Moulded Glass" pg.116, that in 1881 Max Sugar registered a flower trough that has the same design to the bottom as my boat. Also, on page 3, there's a Greener salt with sides very similar to the sides on the boat. I haven't found anything more about Max Sugar yet though.
Onwards
Cat
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Cat — Quote them the ISBN — That's why I included it. I see it is readily available second-hand through Amazon at around £15.00. Seems to me a bargain.
Bernard C. 8)
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Hello:
The closest that came up was The Victorian pattern glass & china book : the classic Victorian illustrated pattern catalog of English and foreign ornamental tableware, glassware, and decorative household goods
Publisher New York : Arch Cape Press, c1990. Showing 1 copy but I rang and they said it was no longer available.
Is this the same book? It keeps coming up as an option when I search for the Silber & Fleming Glass & China book........
I can't say if it is the exact same book or not, but I have the book that your search comes up with and my copy shows the item that Bernard has discussed.
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Cat & Sid — Here's the amazon.co.uk link to the English version of the reprint, prices start at £14.49 plus p&p (and it's hardback):-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silber-Fleming-Glass-China-Book/dp/1853269441
And here's the amazon.com link to the American version of the reprint, prices start at $5.00 plus p&p:-
http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-Pattern-Glass-Fleming-Silber/dp/0517030454
Thanks, Sid, I had not appreciated that it had been published this way.
I have to admit that I am rather tempted by the US prices. I can't understand why the prices are so low. It's a superb reference.
Cat — several glassworks made pillar decorated posy troughs. I was just emphasizing the link between your boat and the epergne block.
Bernard C. 8)