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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 03:29:07 PM

Title: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 03:29:07 PM: I am hoping there are some Daum experts in this forum.

It has been known for some time that Daum produced at least one candle lamp with a wintry scene decoration. It has been our assumption that it was the only one produced, c. 1900. However, a second Daum candle lamp has been discovered by one of my Fairy Lamp Club members members. This one has well known sailboat motif and what appears to be a "pottery-like" base in contrast to the glass base on the first one.

Both lamps bear the Daum Nancy signature and the Croix de Lorraine trademark. They are approximately 4.25"h. x 5.375"d. I have put a photo of both candle lamps on-line for your information at:

http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Temp/Daum_Fairy_Lamps.jpg

Please let me know if you require any additional information.

I would appreciate any information you may have on these candle lamps, especially any formal documentation that establishes the date of of production or a "formal title" for the decoration.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Jim Sapp
www.fairylampclub.com
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: chuggy on June 11, 2007, 06:09:14 PM: Jim I once had a pair of Daum salts with the same winters scene that the left hand lamp has. These were dated for me as 1908-1910 period, I don't know how that compares with when you think the lamps may date from as I have no knowledge of these lamps.
Hope this is of some help.
Paul
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 06:27:45 PM: I think the date is just about what I thought it was. Thanks for your help.

Jim.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: aa on June 11, 2007, 07:12:03 PM: Presumably each lamp has two separate pieces. Is the signature on both pieces?
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 07:47:21 PM: Each lamp is two separate pieces. The base is marked Daum Nancy.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: aa on June 11, 2007, 08:12:49 PM: If I can find the catalogue by Noel Daum that he gave me, I'll have a look to see if there's anything in there about them. :)

I agree with Paul about the one on the left.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 12, 2007, 02:04:46 PM: Quote from: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 07:47:21 PM
The base is marked Daum Nancy.

Correction: The dome is marked "Daum Nancy" with the Cross of Lorraine along the lower edge. The base is unmarked.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Frank on June 12, 2007, 02:12:03 PM: I would be interested in seeing more views, particularly of the bases.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 12, 2007, 04:20:15 PM: Quote from: Frank on June 12, 2007, 02:12:03 PM
I would be interested in seeing more views, particularly of the bases.

Frank, I am working on getting additional photos. Unfortunately, I do not own the lamp so we have to wait for the owner to respond.

In the meantime, a third Daum fairy lamp has cropped up. The image is poor and the design is unknown. In addition, the design appears to be painted on as opposed to cutback cameo. I also have an inquiry into the owner for additional images.

The new design is at: http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Temp/Daum_03.jpg (http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Temp/Daum_03.jpg)

It is amazing what shows up when you start asking questions. :-)
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 12, 2007, 05:09:04 PM: Quote from: Jim Sapp on June 11, 2007, 03:29:07 PM
This one has well known sailboat motif and what appears to be a "pottery-like" base in contrast to the glass base on the first one.

Another correction.....

The base is glass. When you hold it up to light, it is a deep opaque purple color. (According to the owner)
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: aa on June 12, 2007, 06:30:38 PM: I have looked up the two exhibition catalogues that I referred to, but there is nothing similar there. I am surprised to learn that the bases are not signed and I wonder whether these are contemporary with the domes.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 12, 2007, 06:54:57 PM: Quote from: aa on June 12, 2007, 06:30:38 PM
I wonder whether these are contemporary with the domes.

Considering that I have located three different scenes on a similar base, I would think the base is original to the shade. The design with a sailboats has a base of the same color as the sail boats over glass. I assume it is what the shade looked like before the cameo was cut.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: aa on June 13, 2007, 10:21:25 PM: Daum - cent ans de verrerie d'art "trois styles" 3e exposition mars 79 a mars 80, Musee des Beaux-Arts de Nancy:

no 15 Lampe neige et foret 1902 h .042m. so this would date the decoration but the height of the lamp, not illustrated, is 16" inches, so this is not your lamp. However, the description goes on to say:
Ce decor de foret sous la neige est bien connu; il a donne naissance a de nombreuses realisations (et imitations), notamment quelques lampes; celle-c est particulierement grande avec son abat-jour hemispherique. - This decoration of forest under the snow is well known; it has given birth to numerous versions (and imitations), notably some lamps; this one is particularly large with its hemispherical lamp-shade.

I think it is worth looking at http://www.comandesign.ro/products.php?cat=16 who produce "Daum Nancy" type vases.

I wonder what Ivo thinks about the lamps that you have posted. I think he knows more about Daum than I do. :)
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 13, 2007, 10:52:29 PM: Thanks for the information and link to the website.

Today, I recieved high resolution images of two of the known lamps. Both of these lamps are signed on both the shade and base. The third lamp is only signed on the shade.

I will post all the images, including the signitures, as soon as the images of the third lamp arrive.

Jim.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Frank on June 14, 2007, 10:53:51 AM: Images will need to show the interior surface as this is often a give-away for non-genuine cameo.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 15, 2007, 05:01:58 PM: I have put together a webpage containing additional photos of three known Daum fairy lamps. Please let me know if the new images help to make an assesment. If you know of other collegues (collectors, dealers, museums, et.) please feel free to pass this link on to them if you think they can help. The new images are at:

http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Fairylamp/Daum_Fairy_lamps.html (http://www.fairy-lamp.com/Fairylamp/Daum_Fairy_lamps.html)

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim
www.fairylampclub.com (http://www.fairylampclub.com)
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Frank on June 15, 2007, 06:04:38 PM: I doubt we will get far looking at the pics. I would assume they are all fakes and attempt to disprove that, this could mean get appraisals from someone who can handle them. Other options are to find out when they came on the market and try to track them backwards.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: aa on June 15, 2007, 08:45:38 PM: Quote from: Jim Sapp on June 15, 2007, 05:01:58 PM
photos of three known Daum fairy lamps.[/url]

I think it is very important to be clear that these are not "known Daum fairy lamps".
At this point, these are just three lamps which you are trying to research. There is nothing wrong for you to hope that a conclusion will be reached that they are Daum. However, as Frank says, a good historian starts from the premise that they are not and then would attempt to disprove that theory, as opposed to assuming that they are, and waiting for someone to disprove that assumption.

The reason for my comment is that posts on this board stay on the internet for ever and unless mysteries like this are addressed precisely, someone may find it on google at a later date and misunderstand the position.

As to the images, which are much clearer, these show that the tops of two have been ground down, which suggests that if they were original, they have been damaged and restored. Unfortunately, the angle of the image of the top of the marine scene does not show whether this is fire polished or ground down.

I have drawn the attention of this thread to an expert who commented, among other things:

"broken vases can be fashioned into fairy lamps, and tree branches
trailing off the edge are indicative, as are non matching tops and bottoms"

and "If some or any of it is Daum it will show from the quality & the
finish, and even if you have a good photograph it does not replace
handling. If it is Daum then it is flawless by definition"

I am not convinced as to the quality, from the images. I just had another look through my various catalogues to refresh my memory of the sort of quality and qualities to expect from Daum. All the pictures I could find seem to jump off the page as being a much higher quality than your lamps appear to show.

I would also interested to know the history of these. Did they all come from the same source? I think you may unwittingly have been the victim of a hoax.

Have you considered having these appraised by a major auction house, such as Christies or Sothebys?
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on June 16, 2007, 02:11:26 AM: Your are right. I didn't mean to imply they were "known" to be Daum. I simply ment they are the only three that have been seen in over a decade.

The first one was found in the early 90's and was thought to be the only one made. The second was found in 2002. The third (the cameo) was found recently but I don't know the exact date.

One of the reasons I came to this forum was to see if anyone else had seen any of a similar type, have Daum documentation that proves the attribution is correct, and equally important, if anyone was aware of a contermpory manufacturer that was producing them.

I am open to all possibilities on these lamps. The important thing is to have the attribution correct....even if they are contempory. Especially, if they are contemporary to keep any of our members from investing foolishly.

Jim
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Frank on June 16, 2007, 08:22:23 AM: While most people are aware that Tip Gallé are producing reproductions which are often resold on eBay as Gallé, there does not seem to be quite so much knowledge of other makers. This, I am sure, because unlike Tip the others are being deliberately made to deceive.

Comparing...

Winter landscape vase page 136, 20th Century Glass, Judith Miller. v. Lamp 1

Lamp 1
The yellow background appears patchy and dull, the trees in the background are indistinct, snow on the tree is not well applied (In fact it defies gravity), snow on ground is odd.

Page 136
Orangey background is intense and even, background trees are detailed, snow on trees looks delicate, snow on the ground has more definition.

Both appear to have a cut top edge - but inclusion in a book does not mean that it left the factory in that state. I have seen other cases where damaged pieces have been shown in books without any reference to the repair.

Speculating...

It could be that someone saw the first mentioned on your site and produced the second because of that. People do use website information when making fakes. The amount of information about fake glass on the web is far too small and little specifically about Daum fakes.

An interesting aspect that leans towards these being genuine, is that there are differences in the pieces, vent cut-outs, different signatures. These would tend to indicate a less than insignificant number were produced and as a result they should have been documented by now.

Daum were a prolific producer but I suspect have their main following in France, accordingly there could be much 'unknown' literature. I have a soft spot for Daum as I often used to find lovely pieces but found them very hard to sell... as I always tend to support the under-dog ::)
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: mrop on November 25, 2010, 01:20:29 AM: I saw the first lamp, or at least a similar lamp, in the late 1970s, early 80s at the owner's home. It was purchased from Agnes Koehn Antiques from an ad in the Antique Trader. The winter scene cameo was certainly Daum, the only question being the triple bevel on the top of shade, and if the shade has been ground down. The base matched the lid. Canadian fairy lamp collector Doug Gole tracked the lamp to the new owner's home and spent years trying to obtain it. At the time it was the only one he knew. When the owner's died it was sold to Gole in the late 1980s. I vaguely remember a larger cross of Lorraine mark. The Koehns were high end importers of Art Glass and sold many lamps. I believe they were from Iowa.
Title: Re: Daum Fairy Lamp
Post by: Jim Sapp on November 25, 2010, 01:32:14 AM: Thank you for the information. I have tried to keep track of where Doug's fairy lamp collection went to, but I do not have a record who purchased the Daum lamp. I suspect, however, it may have been given/sold to a close family friend and would not be too difficult to track down. But, there is no need to satisfy my curiosity with the effort.

Jim.