Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: KevinH on May 21, 2005, 08:00:55 PM
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Hi folks,
Perhaps this really belongs in the Murano board? Maybe it's early Venetian? On the other hand, could it have nothing at all to do with Italy? Is it even true Façon de Venise as would usually apply to this sort of item?
What are your views? Likley time period? Likely country?
Full item: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=15047&fullsize=1
Central Stem: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=15046&fullsize=1
[Edit 2011 ... Tinypics lost and now replaced with new ones in Glass Gallery]
Overall height is 15 inches / 38.1 cm. The diameter of the foot is 3 3/8 inches / 8.1 cm. Overall weight is 10 1/8 ounces / 290 grammes.
The cover, sits inside the bowl. The foot is folded underneath and has a small central Dome shape where it meets the stem - unlike the more obvious Domed feet of some 18th century drinking glasses. There is, as expected within a Domed foot, an unfinished pontil scar.
So what do you think? Anyone seen anything similar in their travels?
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Very hard to say; could be original Venetian (though it looks a bit heavy) or could be Facon-de-Venise (Spain, France, Holland, Belgium, and other countries) or could be Venetian revival (English, Italian etc). I think you'll have to find a venetian specialist for this one!
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It looks Venetian to me, not that I'm any sort of expert :oops:
I do have a Facon de Venise goblet (well, I have two actually, but no clear and unobstructed photo of the second), bought a few years ago in Murano, the stem of which has some slight similarity, IMHO. http://tinypic.com/5burn7 (excuse the little hare lurking in the front of the picture - I collect hares too :roll: )
I would have thought that the folded foot indicated some age, but no doubt someone will correct me on that assumption :roll: :lol:
Leni
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I showed this to an Italian friend who mentioned an itinerant Venetian glass-blower who used to sign his work Penso Amor, and he thought it looked like one of his pieces, but I suppose you would have mentioned if it was signed, Kevin?
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Although I can't say where this covered goblet hails from, the upper part does seem curiously plain compared to the lower section imvho. I've only managed to find about nine examples, but they were all more elaborate in some way to either the cover or the cup or the knop.
Perhaps it's from a time when two styles collided?
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Ok folks, I'll admit it ... I was teasing ... just a bit :)
I know who made the goblet and when.
But perhaps you kind folk trust me too much? How come nobody asked for a description of the wear to the underside of the foot or even to the underside of the cover where it sits on the rim of the bowl? Had this been asked, I would have replied with a positive, "No wear at all" statement. And if somebody had asked about a "ping" test, I would said it "rings beautifully".
But there were some good "questioning" points raised:
- Ivo covered the options well and righlty suggested it "looked a little heavy".
- Leni's observation about a folded foot possibly indicating some age is one that I used to believe, until seeing modern use of the same technique.
- Max felt that the upper parts were "curiosuly plain compared to the lower section". Yes! I'd agree with that.
- Adam's comments were clues in the right direction, but then Adam knew all along what this was.
But it was not made by Adam.
I bought the goblet in December 2002 while visiting John Deacons' studio in Crieff, Scotland as part of a paperweight club event. It was on a shelf of various items all made by Franco Toffolo, including some very nice Lamps and Vases. It was unsigned and I did not ask Franco to sign it, but I imagine the foot could quite easily have taken a signature as it is good quality lead-based glass, as is the bowl and cover and the clear part of the stem.
There was little opportuntity to gather details about Franco's career while I was on the event. But the little I know, or have found on the Internet (some of which is in the Ysartglass site), is that Franco used to work at Caithness Glass and after retirement has enjoyed making all sorts of pieces at John Deacon's studio. Before joining Caithness, Franco was (I believe) the creator and master glassworker of the "Venetian Glass Company" at Blackpool. And before that he was a master glassmaker at Murano, following his father and grandfather in the traditions. At one stage he was at the Venini works.
So the Goblet is modern but made by a Murano worker and using old styles that are still being used today.
Just goes to show that surprises pop up all over the place - I attended the visit to John Decons' studio to look at, and talk about paperweights, but came away with a Gobet in the "Old Venetian" style.
Just a bit of fun ... :lol:
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Franco Toffolo is of course a Maestro Glassmaker and seems resistant to giving details on his history. He also worked elsewhere in the UK, came across a reference somewhere - might be in another thread here - Blackpool I think it was.
Hee is what is posted on my Scottish glassmakers page:
Born Italy 19??. Murano 40 years. Own studios Italy & UK c1989 Caithness Glass, Senior development glassmaker. Retired c2002 and now lectures and working at John Deacons studio.
I have some more material which I will add when I get the chance.
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- Adam's comments (and those of "Guest") were clues in the right direction, but then Adam knew all along what this was....But it was not made by Adam. Just a bit of fun ... :lol:
It is a splendid goblet. One day, when I grow up, I'll be able to make goblets like that, but they need a lot of practice! :roll:
I showed this to an Italian friend who mentioned an itinerant Venetian glass-blower who used to sign his work Penso Amor, and he thought it looked like one of his pieces, but I suppose you would have mentioned if it was signed, Kevin?
Penso Amor .....Think Love......an anagram of Kevin Holt :D
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Kev, your pics have disappeared from Tinypic, and as this is such an interesting topic it'd be useful to have them added back if you have copies still please?
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Hi Adam talking about you growing up i have a piece of your glass dated 1991 how did you manage to reach and handle the tools when you were a little boy,it looks like a ring doughnut standing on its side, clear with a hole thru the middle you forgot to add the sugar.
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Hi Kevin Wow thats a vase and a half :mrgreen:
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Thanks, but it's a goblet not a vase. :)