Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: BJB on June 04, 2005, 03:37:08 PM
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I have just been on my usual Saturday trawl round a local carboot sale, and found this.
http://tinypic.com/5n6dqr
After pouring over my Geoff Timberlake book (thanks Nigel) I wonder if it might be one of the lanterns listed near the back. It just has a loop on the top, so it didn't have chains.
I did think it might be 1930's LONG PENDANT H2 design, but having read the blurb on page 101 regarding the "square wire" I don't know which of the hanging 1950's ones it might be. It is 12" long.
Just one last quick question, does anyone know what it might go for on Ebay, as I have had a quick look but can't find anything like it.
Thanks
Barbara
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The ones in the book look to be constructed with a more expensive technique (metal-work) than yours. Use of non-ferrous metals is not uncommon for post-war lamps intended for outdoor use and square profile is a lot easier to handle. There were a lot of makers producing this type of lamp in the UK and probably elsewhere too.
Value is fairly arbitrary, you could stick 250 on in Bond St 25 in Camden Lock.
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Hello Barbara :D
I know that Whitefriars made some lanterns (well, they didn't make the metalwork, another company did, but they blew the glass into them), but I don't think yours is Whitefriars.
Have you considered your lantern could be contemporary? I'm sure I've seen similar in good department stores...I could be wrong - I hope so! It's always lovely to find a goodie. Either way, it's a great looking piece - so you've done well. :D :D
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:D It's the sort of shade I think looks lovely in the lobby (porch or vestibule), at the front door. You've done well today with lighting! :P
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Hi Sue,
Since the 1960's lampshades I seem to be more drawn to lighting, so I seem to see and buy more :D
As long as its glass though I don't mind.
Will have to get a very biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggg lamp for the other shade :wink:
Barbara
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Barbara, I was just trawling the net; searching for things to buy - as you do :roll: :D when I came across this:
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=994&item=7327797979&rd=1
It's not exactly the same, but it's quite similar to yours isn't it? :D
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Hi Max,
Yes very similar, but my wire is very square and that looks round. Mine also cost a lot less :D
Will list it later in the year when the nights start to draw in again :wink: Not worth it while they are nice and light.
Barbara
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Mine is the same size as the Italian one but in amber and the metal work is finished in a blck plastic coating.
The pattern is similar to both but not exactly the same as either.
I suspect they were all made in Italy and that the Veneziana refers to a "style" rather than infering Murano manufacture.
Lucerna (lovely word) just means lamp I think but "Sofiato" I believe refers to the technique of blowing glass into a wire "cage".
Corrections welcome.
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The coating on the wire on mine is black paint, which is begining to peel a bit in places and is going very slightly rusty, so I think it may be a bit older than the Italian one.
The paint goes all the way round so it hasn't been added later. :?
Curiosier and curiosier :D
Barbara
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Hello Barbara,
When I was researching my book those kind people at Nazeing gave me as much information about their lanterns as they knew. However, when I found a lantern which although not the same shape as yours, but otherwise had very similar colour, framework and peeling black paint, those kind peoople stated without any hesitation " that's not one of ours". I strongly suspect the same applies to yours.
Paradise Traders said "I suspect they were all made in Italy and that the Veneziana refers to a "style" rather than infering Murano manufacture".
That may be true of many other lanterns, but please do not think that any true Nazeing lantern was made anywhere other than Broxbourne, Herts.
regards, Geoff Timberlake
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Hi Geoff,
Many thanks, I had a look at the pictures in your book, but with them being catalogue pictures rather than photo's it is not quite so easy to see the finer details. And there is so much debate about what is and what isn't Nazeing (as I know to my cost!) it is rather a touchy subject, and I usually steer well clear of this glass, but I did like this one :D
Do you think it might date from the same time in the 1950's, rather than later (re the paint rather than the plastic coated wire)
Have got to get some new screws for the sides as the bright silver ones slightly spoil the effect :wink:
Barbara
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Barbara, I note your photo has disappeared (as they tend to do on TinyPic), but here's an advert on Anne's Advert Gallery of an original Nazeing advert, c.1950, showing 'cage-blown' lightshades.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2950
As with all the adverts I'm posting, I have them in original size if anyone requires them. These are photos though, and not scans.
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Hi all,
Interesting thread about an area of Nazeing that I find a tad difficult , so particularly sad that it's without the original photo :( (the ebay one seems to have gone as well :shock: :( )
As with many of these things I suppose once you have a known piece that you can study it trains you to notice other correct pieces - not fulproof I know, but I find it works reasonably for me. It's finding that first one in this case :shock: :( :shock:
Very interesting advert David, thanks. I note the date of 1950, but are you able to narrow that down at all please? Also, is it possible to say from what publication it comes from?
Nigel
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Nigel, the advert dates to April 1948 and it featured in Pottery Gazette adn Glass Trade Review.
At this time Nazeing were quite prolific advertisers and I have a few more of these spot coloured ones listing other items.
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Thanks for that David. I do have a number of original Nazeing coloured adverts from this period, but have not managed to find the one with the latterns, so its very good to know the complete reference :D .
There was another company producing these latterns, as well as bracket lamps and table lamps of the same form and during the same time period as Nazeing. They were Thornton-Owen Ltd, who were based in Birmingham and who worked in conjunction with John Walsh Walsh Ltd in the production of these items. Unfortunately, it is difficult to tell the section of the steel used, although one is large square section the others illustrated could well be round 'wire' section.
Nigel
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Hi,
Just to add, since I bought that lamp I noticed a fair few about and was told that they were Eastern European and had been "sea dipped" to give the paint that peeling look. I don't know it was the case or not.
But have not seen any about this year so the popularity must have gone, its large paperweights this year! Mainly the Chinese ones, which are being sold as anything from "Rare Vintage Antique... to Unsigned Caithness" and all decriptions in between.
Barbara
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Hi all,
Hope you don't mind me reviving this topic but I acquired a pair of Nazeing "Priory" lanterns today (picture below) which I will be listing on eBay shortly and so was browsing for a bit more info and came across this topic.
I'd love to know how common these are and, as the links in the discussion are no longer working, would really appreciate a rough idea of the value of the lanterns.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5980
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Hello,
I said earlier in the thread that this is an area that I find difficult, and I believe others do also.
For that reason alone it is likely that we are not aware of how rare, or common, these lanterns by Nazeing are. I am not aware of anyone showing interest in, or collecting, these.
I have looked at your example and compared it with the one illustrated in Geoff's book on page 102, and, whilst I realise there would be latitude in the making of these items, I'm not entirely convinced they are the same thing.
The hanging apparatus shown in the illustration is far more complex with wire 'chains' leading up to a frame before it is then connected to a hook. If we allow that other examples could have been produced, then it is possible that the hanging method could have been simplified.
Then, looking at the frame that the glass 'bursts' through, the central bubbles go through a circle on the one in your photo, whereas in the illustration the central area is bounded by two wavy bands of metal that have a vertically elongated gap between them, so that the shape the glass goes through is not circular. Above and below these wavy lines the illustration shows the curls of metal connected directly to the wavy lines of metal. The one in your photo shows them clearly seperate.
If it were mine I would, sadly, not be able to attribute it to being "Priory" by Nazeing.
Although it is possible that there could be variations by one manufacturer, it is likely that the main frame would stay consistant, if only because everything would be gigged up to make them. Simplifying the hanging mechanism might well be introduced as a way of reducing the selling price.
As to it's current value, I think that will be determined by the market. Presumably when you bought it you felt the price reasonable, so surely any profit above that would be OK? (allowing for p&p and selling costs of course!). Sometimes buying and selling something can even mean a financial loss, but the profit is always that you've gained knowledge - both of the market and of the item in question.
Lastly, I feel that the problem with these lanterns is that there are many versions made over a protracted period of time, by a number of manufacturers, with only a few alluded to earlier in this topic.
Perhaps Stephen, or Geoff could through more light on the subject?
Nigel
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http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5980
Looks like it has sun-purpled, or is that just the photo?
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Nigel ~ thank you so much for the full and very informative answer which is very much appreciated. To give you the full picture, we actually got them in a cheap lot at auction which we bought for 4 modern table lamps which we wanted for ourselves, so if there is any value in them, it's a bonus!
Have now had another very good look at the picture of Priory 75/7 which was sent to me in response to my original request for information on the GF board, and can see what you mean about the shape of the rings on the frame. My lanterns do have hanging kit with them in the form of 3 straight bars going up to a ring and a triangular hanging piece which fits to a hook on a square ceiling plate with curled corners (I'll post a picture of this later, when I've done it), but the triangular bit isn't as fancy as shown in the catalogue picture either ~ it doesn't have the scrolls. All the metal work is square sectioned.
Looks like I'll be listing them as 'Nazeing style' and see how (if!) they go!
Frank ~ the glass is actually a sort of peachy colour, rather than being affected by sunlight.
Very many thanks again for your help and interest, John.
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David posted a copy of a Nazeing lantern advert in GlassGallery recently - does this help at all?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2950
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Hi Anne, and many thanks.
I looked at that link while doing my research before, but am not sure if it helps much as it's c1950 and I believe that the Priory pattern no. 75/7 (which I thought mine were) is from the 1930's. Comparing those in your link with the ones in the 1930's catalogue which I have been sent a copy of, there are some differences, especially in the shape of the cage.
Mine are actually slightly different from both, but a lot closer to the 1930's catalogue! ???
Thanks again for your help, John :)
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I can lay my hands on half a dozen catalogues with this style of lantern, they were very widely produced in many countries. Some would have been creative but equally some could have just copied pictures from other makers.
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Hi John,
If the page you have is a copy of is out of Geoff's book, then both the page illustrations he shows are from the 1950's catalogue. [Edit: I've just noticed you quote 75/7 as the code - this is the 1950's code for "Priory".]
He says, in the section under 1950's catalogue - Lanterns, page 101, second sentence, "In many cases the names were the same as the pre-war originals, but the shapes were changed."
On page 31 of the text he also discusses the metal used and the method of construction. The frames were made by a local firm, George Hettdem and Sons. Originally, the wire was round section and later square. In the 1950's the frame was made using spot welding techniques and an expensive non-rusting nickel wire, which when finished gave an antique appearance. (I have paraphrased Geoff's section)
By looking at the photo's of the 1930's versions, shown on pages 98 -100, it is fairly clear that the wire was connected traditionally using metal (wire) clips. The pre-war "H7 -Priory" design is nothing like yours, but the lantern - H3 - called "Abbey" is similar as it uses the circles, but all the other metalware is clipped directly to those circles.
I hope this helps, Nigel
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Thank you Nigel ~ it helps a lot!
Will have another good look at everything before making a final decision about what to do with them.
Very many thanks again for your time and trouble, John.
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I have resurrected this thread again as I have today bought a Nazeing Priory lantern. Generally I am not confident when it comes to Nazeing but on this occasion I will stick my neck out! Regretting my moment of confidence already!! It exactly matches the design shown for H7 in Fig 74 in Geoff's book, the frame is square section, rusty and held together with metal clips. I haven't contributed to the Board for a long time and am unsure about adding photographs but will give it a go if anyone is interested.
I now have one small problem, it is quite a large thing and I can't exactly display it on my Nazeing and possibly Nazeing shelves. I could hang it in the porch and actually use it as intended but should appreciate some advice. There is only one small hole in the top of the lid through which a cable should just about go through. There are no holes for any heat to escape from when the bulb is on but would this be a problem?
Your comments would be very much appreciated.
Lynne
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Hi
I was wondering if Nigel (or any other Nazeing collector) might be able to give me the benefit of their opinion on the lantern. I may well be going to the Glass Fair at Chilford hall on Sunday but would rather not lug the beast of a thing there to show Nigel who will no doubt be very busy. I couldn't decide what to do with it and so for the time being it is hanging under a tree in my garden!
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At the time it was quite common to use only 2 core no earth, so holes were kept small. Heat of the bulb is no problem. You could clamp an earth to the external frame but might then have waterproofing problems so make sure to seal the cable entry well.
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Thanks for that Frank, I think I will put it in our porch which is open on one side only so it would only be affected by the humidity levels rather than direct attack by rain. Still hoping that someone will confirm it as definitely Nazeing though! :X: