Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: Binggirl on June 06, 2005, 05:11:28 PM
-
I stumbled across this message board in my search to identify a piece of glass I bought in a second hand shop and really hope someone can help me. It's a shallow cut glass dish - one in high and six inches wide. It has a star pattern cut into the centre with lines travelling out to the edges approx half an inch apart, each one with a tiny (around half inch) 'leaf' on the end. The glass has swirling 'wobbles' in it that can be seen if you hold it up to the light. The only thing I've seen like it is in a book about Greta Runeborg-Tell from the Ekenas glassworks in Sweden but there were no leaf pattern.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1871
Any help very gratefully recieved.
-
:D Hello Binggirl, Are you absolutely sure there are no markings on the base? Get it in the light and look very carefully around the edges and the centre for an etched mark. Something is ringing a bell in the recesses of my head that it might be Edinburgh Crystal, or Stuart. I'm sure I've seen this pattern before. :D
-
I've had another really careful look Sue and there's nothing, frustratingly. Are there any Stuart or Edinburgh websites I can search? Thanks for this info by the way.
-
There's Replacements.com which has images of lots of designs organised by manufacturer name, but the drawback is they most often use stemware as the example which makes id'ing a bowl more time-consuming, but it's worth a try if you have some spare time. http://www.replacements.com and follow the Crystal link and then select the alphabet letter for the maker you want to check. Tip: Once you've found the manufacturer use the blue bar on the left side to see lots of patterns per page rather than having to open each one individually. (Replacements also offer an ID service which is useful if you can't find it anywhere else.)
Hope this helps. :)
-
:D :roll: You might try Webb as well. I'm positive I've seen this long and short stemmed leaf topped cut before, and I'm sure it was one of these. Nigel Benson would probably know! I do have the booklet that went with his exhibition on art cut glass, I'll have a hunt for it and get back.
-
I have a photo of glasses designed by L. Green for Webb Corbett , Bouquet Range. 1958 with the leaf motif. Looks influenced by W. Clyne Farquharson designs for Walsh 1930's.
G Man
-
Hi binggirl
Try this link could be what you are looking for
http://www.glass.co.nz/johnwalshwalsh.htm
Tony H
-
:D :cry: Well, I found my booklet, but no joy there for this pattern. Is there any age-related wear to the base of the glass? This would help to tell if it's new or not. I'm still sure I've seen this pattern in a less bendy style than the pictures of the Walsh, and not in opposing directions, but I think that the bendyness and/or the direction might well be adapted for the particular piece of glass being cut. I think we might just have to wait and see if Nigel can elucidate! :D
-
Thank you all SO much! The Walsh Walsh thing sits just right I think. Yes there is some very slight age related wear in a circle around the central star on the base. But otherwise no chips or scratches. I'm just a 'beginner' with glass - just picking up things from second hand shops that I think are pretty - and learning as I go along so this is all really encouraging.
-
Hi,
I am afraid that I cannot give a definitive attribution. I have done a little 'digging' to check through information that I have to hand. Like Sue, I am convinced that I've seen this pattern before - but then we have all experienced quirks of memory, and I might be confusing the facts below and producing a ficticious 'memory'.
The similarity to the Walsh Walsh pieces is superficial. One must be careful not to give something an attribution with only a small amount of information based on one common feature. After all mitre cutting in conjunction with a fine intaglio cut line has been used by a number of designers and companies in the past in the UK in particular.
I do have Eric Reynolds' book on John Walsh Walsh with me and there is nothing similar other than the well known 'leaf pattern' range that has been alluded to above, nor can I see a dish with the same form.
However, in the catalogue to the cut glass exhibition that we produced there is a piece of Webb & Corbett (item no.133) that uses a technique that shows much greater similarity to the cutting on this dish - although the vase in question has a curved fine cut line with a 'spear' or 'leaf' shaped mitre cut at each end. It has the same delicate feel as the pattern on Binggirl's dish and has been attributed to Len Green (well done Sue!). In Guttery's "From Broad-Glass to Cut Crystal" there is an illustration of an identically shaped dish (no dimensions), also by Webb & Corbett. The cutting is similar in that the lines radiate out from a star cut base, BUT they are deeper cut. The central star cut, which has less points than the dish we are discussing, is echoed fives times around the bowl bisecting two of the radiating lines each time. This bowl is a design by Irene Stevens and is, from memory, illustrated in a Studio yearbook as well. The pattern and technique used on your dish are more in line with known work by Len Green.
Whilst these observations superficially suggest that the dish is more than likely to be Webb & Corbett - pattern similar to works by 'LG', and same shape as a piece by 'IS' - sadly, the information is not conclusive. Unless we can find an illustration to pin it down, I think only handling the piece would allow me to see other characteristics that would assist in an attribution.
Not conclusive, but perhaps narrowing down the possibilities?
Nigel
-
Whoops, sorry G Man it was you, not Sue, who suggested Len Green and Webb & Corbett. I tried a number of times to edit, but the system kept logging me out!
Credit where credit's due I always say! :)
Cheers, Nigel
-
Hi everyone.
When I first saw this cut dish, I recognised it as from a wide range which I first thought was by Webb Corbett some years ago, but now I am not so sure, as none of the examples I have had through my hands have been marked, unusual for Webb Corbett. So I held back from commenting, hoping that enlightenment would come from another source.
Yes, it is obviously a development of Clyne Farquharson's innovative 1930s designs for Walsh, and yes, it is very similar to Len Green's 1958 Bouquet range for Webb Corbett (ref: Frederick Cooke, Glass — Twentieth Century Design, 1986, p77; also Benson & Hayhurst, Art Deco to Post Modernism, 2003, #133).
Its close similarity to Webb Corbett's Bouquet range eliminates the possibility of it being a mainstream Webb Corbett pattern, as it just does not make commercial sense. In my experience glass manufacturers concentrate on several quite different ranges to broaden the appeal to both their wholesale buyers and the public. However there is one exception to this — the retailer exclusive, now unusual except for retailers such as M&S and Habitat, but then, back in the fifties and sixties, much more common. Certainly John Lewis operated this way, and their glass trade buyers were well-known for their opposition to trademarked and signed glass.
For some years I have been looking out for a boxed set that could help resolve all this speculation, so far unsuccessfully. Until then, I think it is most likely to be either A.N. Other Glassworks or a Webb Corbett retailer exclusive Bouquet variant. A study of the blank shapes could also help resolve this.
Note that both of the cited reference works get my top rating. Cooke was issued in two editions with different covers and title pages by Bell & Hyman of London and Dutton of New York, but the contents are identical.
Bernard C. 8)
-
I know nothing about cut patterns. However, Bernard's linking the name Webb Corbett with the date 1958 set me searching my notes. Plate-shaped objects are notoriously expensive to make by blowing and in 1958 we at Davidsons were asked by Webb Corbett to press some small plate blanks in full lead crystal for them to cut.
We made one or two small lots with mixed success. It was never pursued but it does indicate W C s interest in this sort of shape at the time.
We took the opportunity to play around with one of our own small pseudo cut patterns in full lead crystal and acid polished some. That never came to anything either.
Adam D