Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: josordoni on September 19, 2007, 02:26:17 PM
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I have found reference to a Queens Ivory vase with Japanese characters at Pressed in Time (http://www.pressedintime.com/sowerby.htm), as being made in celebration of Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado.
I have this one (http://clarkagency.co.uk/clicpicsept/sowerby_japanese/_local_sowerby_japanese.htm) but it is milk white (I presume Opal vitro-porcelain?) with no uranium shine. Is this the vase mentioned, or a different one? It is 4.5 ins 115 mm tall.
Many thanks.
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Hi - I think this is the Mikado vase illustrated in Sheilagh Murray's book "The Peacock & the Lions", shown in plate 26 - 11.5cm high. This author says that most Queen's Ware is a creamy-white & not uranium. However, she states that a later recipe for Queen's Ware, used after the original, did use uranium, which gave the glass a slight greenish tint. I could add a scan of the picture if it's permissible - does anyone know the copyright situation?
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I'm never sure about copyright, so I hope Anne will be able to tell us.
I have a little white basket with a Sowerby mark here too, and the white of that is exactly the same white as the Mikado (for speed - I know we haven't actually confirmed the name!) vase - I think Queens Ivory is a distinctly softer colour? but I haven't seen any in the flesh. Certainly the height sounds good.
This has one geisha girl, and three Japanese gents, with some spurious japanese "characters" in the top corners - does that match to the illustration?
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ooh I have to bring back my Japanese studies anyway - let us have a look at these please whether they are real and honest 8)
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Lynne, your white vase is Sowerby pattern 1188. It is shown in Glen's Sowerby Vol 1, Victoria to George V, CD - catalogue dated 1882, page 2, pattern #1188. It's also shown in Jenny Thompson's The Identification of English Pressed Glass, p27, which shows a page from a pattern book dated c.1879, all being made in vitro-porcelain, which is your white finish, of course.
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Thank you very much Anne - I take it that this is different from the Mikado vase that furry found in Sheilagh Murphy?
I am waiting for my copy of Jenny Thompson to arrive - but it seems to be out of stock and waiting for new copies.... :cry:
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Coming back to the questions about Queen's Ivory and the Mikado vase.
!: Sowerby made a lot of their patterns in white vitro-porcelain. It is a clean dense white colour. It is collectable but not nearly so valuable as Queen's Ivory. There has been some argument as to whether this dense white colour was called Opal Vitro-porcelain or Blanc-de-Lait (milk white). Simon Cottle refers to "a milky semi-transpartent glass entitled Opal" which Sowerby produced in the early 1880s. However, this was not the same as Josordini's white vase. Cottle goes on to say that the term "Opal" has been applied incorrectly to "Sowerby's Blanc de Lait colour which was developed in 1880 and is a solid opaque white." Cottle likens Sowerby's Opal to Lalique glass, by which I take it that Opal was the name for Sowerby's opalescent glass.
2: Queen's Ivory is a distinctly creamy ivory colour. There is no mistaking it if you have ever seen it.
3: Sowerby used the same molds for several different colours (Opal, Blanc de Lait, Queen's Ivory, and Malachite). However not all the Sowerby patterns were made in Queen's Ivory and Queen's Ivory pieces are rare and highly sought after.
4: As Anne says, Josordini's vase is pattern 1188 shown in the Sowerby pattern book of 1879 (Jenny Thompson) and the 1882 pattern book (Simon Cottle). That does cut out the possibility that it was produced to celebrate Gilbert and Sullivan's opera "The Mikado" which was first produced (Sheilagh Murray says) in 1885. A picture of the same vase accompanies Murray's text in her book "The Peacock and the Lions".
I am going to post this message and then go take some photos of Sowerby's Queen's Ivory, Opal, and Blanc-de-Lait and post them later.
Meantime, I think the debate about David Issit should be separated from this discussion of the Sowerby vase and maybe put with the other threads about him. And can I make a plea for peace, please. Getting upset doesn't resolve the issue.
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Here are some pictures of these kinds of Sowerby glass.
The first shows two Queen's Ivory on the left and a blanc-de-lait on the right.
The second shows two Opal.
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That's cracking Angela, thank you, the little vase is definitely blanc de lait from your first pics- I was confused as I had found only one example of blanc de lait on sale (I can't remember where now, a retail site I think, I looked at so many!!) and that was actually Lalique style / Jobling opalique style - the colour that you are calling opal. I am going to err on the safe side and just call it white vitro-porcelain I think... ;D
I agree that it is impossible for the vase to commemorate the Mikado, given the dates. In any case, Japanese images are very much part of the Aesthetic movement, and I would imagine this is simply echoing the prevailing taste for Japanoiserie.
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ooh I have to bring back my Japanese studies anyway - let us have a look at these please whether they are real and honest 8)
Sorry Pamela, I missed your post in with the general upset about David Issitt.
I don't think these will help your Japanese studies, they look HIGHLY spurious to me! LOL
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Did Queen's Ivory always contain uranium though? I thought, note the thought, I'd seen Sowerby pieces in Ivory (rather than white) that didn't contain uranium.
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I will find my black light (which is hiding from me, as they do) and test all my Queen's Ivory this week and let you know what I find.
Angela
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Thank you
;D
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Would a turquoise blue Japanesque vase with contemporary gilded mounts top and bottom have been made for a special commision from Sowerby.
I shall attach a picture.
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Just a few more images maybe helpful.
Thanks for your opinion.
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An exhibitor at the last Glass Collectors' Fair (Nov 2009)had two 'Mikado' vases on his stall - one in a creamy white glass, and one in in a black glass; so far as I recall, similar to the vase in the posting by josordoni back in Sept 2007. Neither had the mountings shown in poodle7's picture.
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Metal mounts were generally added by the wholesalers or at the request of retailers not by the glass manufacturers, so anything is possible.
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Do a bit of Japanese myself,that script,as some one said earlier, looks made up,nice vitro-porcelain though,Keith.
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Thanks for your replies, there is a number in black on the inside of one of the legs and it look like the same on the base near the the Sowerby Peacock. no 1211.
Where were these vases retailed and were many made ? Thanks again .
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Doubt that you'll find answers to either of those two questions? Are you in the UK?
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Thanks Christine, yes i'm in the UK.