Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Frank on September 21, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
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Not seen very often!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120160921802
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Ooh I like them! :D Just wondering what kind of chemicals were in them...have to do a little snoop around Google for the answer... :)
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H20? ;)
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;D 2 ;D david
http://www.antiquebottles.com/firegrenade/ says chemicals!
Interesting that few of the links work now... knowledge gone :(
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Funny, I always thought water was a chemical! ;)
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It is, but only one. "s" ;)
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But it's made of two chemical substances... >:D
I read here http://www.thegavel.net/grenade.html that most of them contain salt water but some were filled with carbon tetrachloride, more about them here: http://www.insulators.com/go-withs/firegren.htm
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Ah, you're just fanning the flames now, Anne >:D
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Carbon Tet seems sensible but it is nasty stuff! Odd that it is not flammable being so volatile. In the 50's, when it was still safe, it came in bottles with a pad on and you would rub it onto ink stains on clothes and fingers to make them vanish - saved me from many a scolding.
All you ever needed to know about..
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts30.html#bookmark02
:spls: Oh my god, I must have ingested via breathing and skin :o I'm dying ::) err maybe.
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Some of the fire extinguishers used to contain it too.. I have a memory that they were the black ones (when they went into the colour coding of extinguishers.) Mum told me they had carbon tet ones when she was in the WAAF and they used to use them to get stains off uniforms too. Carbon tet was one of the things used by dry cleaners at one time I think.
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All you ever needed to know about..
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts30.html#bookmark02
If you've got about three days free, then read up! I started to read about the effects and then gave up. Basically, if you're over 40, have ever had anything cleaned and live near another house, animal, or other organism then you've been exposed.
I'd like a grenade with just water in it please. ::plaintive "I'm only a poor glass collector" look::
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I remember, years ago, a trolley bus (yes, it was that long ago!) driver in Newcastle accidentally knocked his carbon tet. extinguisher off its bracket. He put it back without noticing it was now leaking. A few minutes later he passed out and his bus went through a shop window.
Although they were very good at putting out fires, the fire brigades didn't like them because so many of them were nearly empty as the contents had been used for cleaning trousers etc.
Adam D.
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I have a Harden Star hand grenade, which after reading posts will pass on quite quickly, better to be safe than sorry, have to be a little bit careful as to description on any customs label if posting overseas, (Harden Star Hand Grenade), may get intercepted, this one still full , this one a little different as has a Regd No on base 10490 which does not seem to be in any books and is not on all the Harden star grenades
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8516
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8517
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8518
Roy
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Seriously, I would empty it!
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It could be one of the prohibited items (http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=36200675) under the Royal Mail Rules and Regs.
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Some photos of a Harden Star hand grenade fire extinguisher. The blue moulded glass grenade stands approx. 6½ inches tall, with a diameter of approx. 4¼ inches. This example (like those in Roy’s gallery links) has a moulded star mark to the front and the words “HARDEN STAR HAND GRENADE” and “FIRE EXTINGUISHER” around the middle. Regd. No. 10490 on the base (which dates the design registration to July or August 1884). The top of the grenade is sealed and still contains liquid.
(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by John & Sue Crumbie).
RD 10490 is not listed at http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/regnos01.htm
and neither is it listed in Thompson or Slack.
The National Archives design registration summary does, however, provide the following details:
Class 4: glass, earthenware etc. (which is presumably why it not listed above). Registered design No 10490, dated 31 July 1884.
Registered by The Harden Hand Grenade Fire Extinguisher Company, of Chicago, Illinois, USA, a corporation under the laws of the State of Illinois, United States of America. This design is applicable for the pattern and the contour or shape.
Lots of the old links no longer seem to work, so I've tried to summarise some of the information contained in them, and added some new ones.
Around 1860, the first American fire extinguisher was developed, the glass “Hand Grenade Fire Extinguisher”. The grenade was thrown at the base of the fire so the glass would smash and release the chemicals – putting out the fire. Most were made after 1870 and until about 1910. Initially the contents were merely salt water solutions with added bicarbonate of soda or muriate of ammonia. The salt water was important so that the grenade could be advertised as “Non-Freezing”. The fire grenades were sealed with cork and cement in order to keep the contents from evaporating. They came in various colours: Blues, Ambers, Greens and Clear glass. Their styles were ornate, which made them decorative as well as functional. For their duration, they were used in homes, factories, schools, train stations and other types of buildings.
By the 1880s, the Harden “Star” Hand Grenade Fire Extinguisher had become the most popular brand, consisting of a glass globe (The glass colour being usually light blue or cobalt blue, though other colours are known – see below), hermetically sealed and filled with a chemical fluid. They had a narrow neck with a round body and were sealed with cement and a cork. The cement seal prevented the liquid from escaping should the cork shrink. According to the Fire Grenade.com website, THE HARDEN HAND GRENADE FIRE EXTINGUISHER CO. HANDBOOK, PUBLISHED IN CHICAGO, AUGUST 1, 1884, stated: The contents of the grenade, when thrown upon or into a fire, vaporize immediately into immense volumes of fire extinguishing gas in which combustion can not possibly exist.” As it turns out, Carbon Tetrachloride was often the chemical of choice as it vaporizes immediately – therein lies part of its danger to humans (and all animals). It is easily absorbed both through the lungs and the skin, and the heat of the fire can convert it into the extremely toxic chemical, phosgene. In fact, there was a spate of deaths in the early days of commercial dry cleaning when workers operating machines using CT as a non-flammable solvent, and smoking cigarettes at the same time, suffered phosgene poisoning as the CT inhaled through the lit cigarette was partially converted to phosgene
John J. Harden took out a US patent on his version (US282981) on August 14, 1883. The grenade was, at that time, filled with carbonic acid or sodium bicarbonate. This version became the most popular in the US, and so in 1884 they registered the design in Britain (RD 10490 on 31 July 1884) and began to sell their grenades in Britain. By the late 1890s, the grenades are being advertised and sold at 40s per dozen with an address at 104 Cannon Street, London E.C.
See: http://www.bottlepickers.com/harden_grenade_add.jpg
There is a photo of a “rare trade card advertising Harden's Fire Grenades and showing how to use them: woman banging them together over a fire in her parlor - 2nd scene shows man throwing one at a fire in his office” at
http://www.antiquebottles.com/firegrenade/
with a link to a photo of a Harden Star grenade in a rare green colour at
http://www.antiquebottles.com/firegrenade/GreenStar.jpg
There was often a wire loop on the neck used to hang the grenade from a hook on the wall or a nail. Often, two or three of these grenades were sold at time in a special wire rack or basket. The heat of a fire was supposed to melt the solder holding the rack, causing the grenades to fall onto the fire. There is a nice photo of a rack with a trio of Harden grenades at http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/HqIKMBwbSM2Hxf2EXPCBRA
In fact, it is possible to buy replica sets in wire baskets at
http://www.oldfirestuff.com/ReplicaSetofHardenStarGlassHandGrenadeFireExtinguishers.htm
I’ve been unable to find out if the Harden Star grenades sold in Britain were made in America and imported here, or whether Harden manufactured (or subcontracted out the manufacture) of the grenades in Britain. I know that some of the Harden Star grenades were not marked with a registered design number (American origin perhaps) while others do have the registration number (so perhaps those were made in Britain or imports destined to be sold in Britain). Does anyone have any hard information about their possible British manufacture, please?
Fred.
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According to this Utube presentation the Harden Star was imported to England & then later produced in England.
The info is from the Baltimore Bottle Club so maybe they would know more if you contacted them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPsHq1SSA0