Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: uncommonglass on October 17, 2007, 03:30:16 PM
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Hi ~ This sturdy egg plate is 9.5 inches across. Shown here is the view of the base. Sorry, the view of the top wouldn't load, having problems with my camera settings, I guess. I found it identified on a website as Portieux, and also see on Pamela's website what looks like a smaller version, but just want to be sure. Thanks for any info! ~ mary
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/normal_mmm_009.jpg
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Hi, You probably saw it on my site. This ID is not complete. I once purchased one of these egg plates which was marked in the glass with Portieux's mark. However, unfortunately, that egg plate was damaged in shipping and I gave it up to the post office in order to collect the insurance. Now I wish I'd kept it even though it was broken into 3 parts, as I haven't found another marked one since then.
Since then I have found that some of the egg plates made in this pattern are heavier than others; and I have found some which were done in treatments that Indiana Glass Company has used (specifically, I have one that is stained blue in the same blue color a known Indiana Glass egg plate of a different pattern was made in; and the red stained center and rim is also a treatment that Indiana used on their common hobnail egg plate), so I believe that Indiana has copied it. But I don't have documentation of that. And although I have seen with my own eyes and touched with my own fingers the marked Portieux one, I also don't have documentation of that one.
My theory is that the lighter in weight egg plates were made by Portieux and that the heavier ones are reproductions. However, I don't have proof of that; and I don't know for certain who made the heavier ones. Portieux is still in business and was still producing glass at least as recently as the 1980s (and may still be producing glass).
Is your egg plate made of clear glass or is it stained yellow? (It looks yellow in the photo, which is why I am wondering.) If you would like to report the exact weight of yours, I will add it to my collection of weights, but cannot make a definite ID at this time. :)
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I forgot to mention size. I have two of my egg plates in this pattern out, and they both are 9.5 inches wide. If I can find any more I'll try to check their measurements, soon. (I know I have at least one more.) I was not aware of any smaller ones. Could you give me directions how to find the one you mentioned?
The blue stained one I suspect might be Indiana weighs 2 pounds 2 ounces. The clear one I have believed to be Portieux weighs 1 pound 15.6 ounces. Not a lot of difference, but some.
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Hi~ Thanks so much for responding!
I weighed the plate and it is 1 lb 15 oz. My scales aren't the greatest for accuracy, so I can't be any more exact. (I did just check to be sure it's reading right by weighing a one pound bag of sugar.)
The glass is yellow, not a fired on, stained or flashed color. It does have shelf wear on the base rim. And the glass reacts a pale green to UV light, not a great neon glow, but faint, if that is significant.
The website where I found what looks like a smaller version is: http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/index2.html
You'll find it there under plates > Portieux
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The 1933 catalogue has this 12 piece plate as No 1281 and the 6 egg as 1280. However, the centre appears to be different. Can you email me some larger pics please, use envelope on the left.
The catalogue does not give sizes.
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okay, trying to get the right picture - hope this view shows better detail
Thanks for helping!
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Difference at centre and outer - could just be the pattern book was not exact or it points to a copy. Yellow IS a possible colour. But not a definitive answer to your question.
Portieux
(http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/a492ab25285950015c8e8ab72513914f.jpg)
here is the small size
(http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/5793ceba74f3525439f55e0292b4519e.jpg)
It is about 20% smaller, so say 7½" diameter, assuming catalogue is to scale.
Images courtesy The Glass-Study
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Thank you so much for the links and the additional photos! And thanks for the catalog pictures, Frank!
OK, I've dug through all of my egg plates and found that I had one of the small ones as well as the ruby stained egg plates. I cannot see any obvious difference* between the three egg plates I have in this pattern, but they each weigh a different amount. The ruby stained one weighs only 1 pound 12.6 ounces (and to recap, my clear one weighs 1 pound 15.6 ounces and my blue stained one weighs 2 pounds 2 ounces). They each are 9.5 inches wide, and I have laid them upside down across each other and they do not appear to vary in width by more than a millimeter, if that. The heavier egg plates are just a wee bit taller, though -- and I think that is because they were left with the bottom rim unfinished after they were un-molded. The ruby stained egg plate, which appears to be older, has a polished bottom rim and some wear scratches on it.
*On minute inspection, there is a very minor difference between them. The hobs in the center of the ruby stained egg plate are completely separated from each other by a small bit of flat glass. On both my clear egg plate and blue stained egg plate, the hobs appear slightly larger and they are touching each other, having almost a hexagon shaped edge.
The ribs around the center circle of hobnails are the same on all three egg plates; and the hobnails on the bottom of the egg hollows are also the same on all three egg plates, being touching each other as in the center of my clear and blue stained ones.
Considering how similar these all are, I am revising my theory that they were made by different companies. They are, in my opinion, too closely similar for one to be a copy. The variations probably are due to the factory having more than one mold in production or perhaps a slight reworking of the mold as time went by and it became worn.
Regarding the difference in the center, where the catalog has another ring of ribs, while the actual egg plates have hobnails, I have two ideas. One is that the catalog has a drawing rather than an actual photo, and such have been known to vary slightly from the actual mold. The other is the slight chance that I could be remembering wrong what the center of the marked Portieux egg plate looked like. I obtained my clear glass egg plate just a week or two before the (broken) marked one, and I think I would have noticed if the centers were different, but time has a way of clouding memory. (Unfortunately, I didn't think to take a photo, at the time.) :-\
Now, for the small plate. I have always thought it was an oyster plate. However, the hollows are fairly small, so maybe not. However, its hollows are larger than the hollows on the egg plates. Using a caliper, I measured the inside dimension at the base of the scallop (where the ribs are). On the small plate they are 2.23 inches. On the egg plates they are 1.83 inches. There are 15 ribs on the edge of the scallop, vs. 11 on the egg plates. The inside length dimension of the hollows are 2.45 inches long, while the egg hollows are 2.28 inches long. These are relatively small differences, though, and the hollows of the small plate are smaller than on other glass oyster plates I have. So... if anyone knows what Portieux called the small plate, that would be helpful to know. :-)
Additional notes on the small plate. It is 8 3/16 inches wide. It is marked in the glass, Portieux. It also has hobnails in the center circle, and those and the hobnails on the bottoms of the hollows are the kind that are touching each other, appearing almost hexagonal on the edges. They appear identical to the hobnails on the egg plates (except for the center of the ruby stained one.) The bottom rim is polished.
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Small one is Plat á œufs (6 places) and large Plat á œufs (12 places)
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Thanks, Frank! So they both are egg plates. :)
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Frank, thanks for the catalogue photos!
Is that from a patent?
Besides the difference of the center pattern, the fans around the outer edge are slightly different from the catalogue picture and my egg plate also.
Marchair - can you show pictures of the ones you are referring to?
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From the Portieux catalogue. Actual pieces can vary from catalogue images.
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Yes, I can take photos. I'll have to wait until the weather clears up, though, as I have to take them outdoors in order to get enough light. I'll post them when I get it done.
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OK, here are some photos. First is all three of my presumed Portiux 12-egg plates. Then one shot of the 6-egg next to the 12-egg plate, and the rest will be links. I've included close shots that show the difference between the center of the ruby stained egg plate vs. the others. I hope this helps!
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http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1990.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1990.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1989.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1989.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/peggs1984.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/peggs1984.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1987.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/pegg1987.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/peggs1991.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z312/glasscats/peggs1991.jpg)
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Beautiful pictures! Thanks so much for showing all your Probable Portieux eggplates. Now, to find one marked,(again) and that will clinch it.
Thank you both again for your help!
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Hi, have you seen this site?
there is a couple of Portieux including a ruby stained one.
http://www.eggplates.com/
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That's my site. :D It's getting a bit "dusty" -- I haven't had a chance to update it for awhile.
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Don't know about dusty! It looks wonderful to me....
I didn't realise it was yours.... doh!
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Thanks! :)
I have several glass egg plates I need to add to it, plus a lot of non-glass ones; and need to update some things. Now that I've taken these photos for this thread, I should change the photos on the site, as these are a lot better than those I have under "Portieux." :)