Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Frank on June 16, 2004, 07:08:27 PM
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Not discussed here since the new board but I have recently come across two more examples of the FBS mark.
[NIGEL - I think you mentioned a French one some time ago, was it etched or engraved?]
The FBS mark first came to light on Monart Glass where it only appears occasionally and only when the piece has the etched Monart export mark too. Monart version:
http://www.ysartglass.com/BaseLabel/Labelimage/MonSignplusBFS.jpg Monart was only sold to retailers in the US so it will not be a wholesaler.
I have also been told of a piece of Italian glass with a paper label bearing the FBS logo, the label also said Italy and had more that was not legible.
Now it has appeared on another French piece engraved.
http://www.ysartglass.com/forum/FBSfrance2.jpg
This is probably a US importer/retailer... but who?
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The Italians will drive you crazy.
There is an FTB label, used by Barovier e Toso (then called Ferro Toso Barovier) between 1935 and 1942. See the green label in the middle of this photo:
http://www.planetglass.net/images/longnautilus9.JPG
More likely, however, the label you have heard of with a Barovier Seguso Ferro (BSF) label. I don't have a photo to show as an example, but they look similar to what you posted.
Laura
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By the way, the order of the Barovier Seguso Ferro label could have been changed to something like ""BFS", making it very likely the one you have heard of.
Laura
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Hi Laura,
The Italian label was identical to the other FBS marks, I misplaced the image though. Have been hunting this one for years and everything points to it being a US/Canada origin. In most cases it included the country of origin alongside the mark, there is a slight chance that the Y shape is actually a Y.
The only consistency is that the method of applying seems consistent, Moncrieff was always acid etched and another French example was reported to me matching the one shown above. That implies that the mark was requested as part of the order.
Most of the Monart examples, at least a dozen reported, have turned up in the US and the mark was always been on pieces with the export mark as above. Export marked Monart has also been found in Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
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The italian label must have been Barovier Seguso Ferro. I've seen it and it looks just like what you posted (with the Y divider in the middle).
Laura
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Frank states that Monart was sold only to retailers. Not in glass but I have seen several pieces of China marked with a retailers name. I have seen Haviland marked "Marshall Fields, Chicago Haviland france. Some of these marks can get wordy. "Made for So and So The city name and then Company name and country of origin. I lean toward a Retailer, but the question remains which one. Terry
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What we do know is that they operated at least 'somwhere' between 1925 and 1960 and they no longer exist.
Most such marked pieces are found in the USA or Canada. In the case of Monart always found with Moncrieff export markings. Collectors have re-imported to Europe.
They imported from at least UK, France, Italy and Bohemia.
They imported quality decorative glass and ceramics.
Makers used different methods to apply the marks; etched, engraved or labelled. Slight variations in design are seen but the letters are always in the same orientation in a Y shape within a circle.
It is likely that the mark was registered in the US or Canada as a trade mark. It should appear in trade directories etc.
The likelihood of it being an 'official' body is unlikely as this would make the mark more common. I have always asked US sellers if they can throw any light on its origin.
There is a coincidence with the initials of Barovier Seguso Ferro and a similar label has been reported (above)
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I have an Art Deco period decanter that has a FBS label on it from Estonia...
Blair
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Can you post a picture of the label please.
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Another example, does anyone know where the glass is from.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7417614339
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If it is a retailer or importer mark, then it is likely to be a New York City one due to the source of the glass (European continent) and the time period.
I have been thinking and thinking about this but haven't come up with any good ideas or matches on the initials.
Federated Dept Stores and Feldman Bros. were 2 big retailers operating in this time period. Federated is still in business but as parent company. But the intials really don't match :roll:
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Hi!
I'm new here and struggling to figure out how to post pictures...but I'm working on it.
I've recently discovered that I may have an Art Deco style of Monart vase. It was a gift to my mother in 1936. I cannot any Monart markings on it, but it does have the "FBS" and the word "France" marked on the bottom. It's 9 1/2 inches tall and very Art Deco-y.
It will be up for sale as soon as I can determine if it is, in fact, a Monart. I'm sorry but I can't figure out you letter/shape designations, either.
I'll go back to trying to get pictures loaded.
Thanks for any and all help!
Patti
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Hi Patti and welcome to the Glass Message Board. :)
This topic might interest you:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,183.msg685.html#msg685
Also this article:
http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/Monartglass.htm
If you would like help in uploading your photo, then email me at: maxeen AT aol.com
:)
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Here are Patti's photographs of her green mottled vase:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7058
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7057
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-7056
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Hi Patti,
This is not Monart, which was made in Scotland. These FBS marks are presumed to be that of US based importer or retailer. The mark, sometimes as a label, has been found on Czech, French and Italian glass. Hopefully someone can identify who made yours and we might get to a better date. Currently it could be anywhere from 1930's to 50's and no-one has come up with any possible identity.
Mostly the pieces with this mark have appeared in the US
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Patti, as I mentioned to you in my email, I'll swap this over to the main glass board for you once you've seen this message and agreed. :) :)
Edit: Just realised that someone's done it already, what great teamwork! ;)
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Gosh, thank you all for the help. I truly appreciate it and am amazed that you all are so active and helpful....not all Boards are as active.
According to records my mother kept, the vase was a wedding present to her in 1936...so I'm fairly certain it's from that era and not from the 50's.
I've checked through a lot of books at the local library and even shelf books at Barnes and Noble but I haven't been able to find anything that looks like this vase.
My most recent attempt to identify it came from the "what's it worth 2 you" website and I paid to have an appraisal and the appraiser ID'd it as possibly a Monart...which led me to you all.
I seem to be back to square one....I have this really interesting Art Deco vase that I can't identify.
If you might have any suggestions as to where I need to turn next, I'd certainly appreciate any help I could get.
Patti
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It seems as though an importers mark is the most likely explanation as I have also found these (http://www.dargate.com/239_auction/239_images/1681.jpg), which are made of porcelain. In the description # 1681 (http://www.dargate.com/239_auction/239_images/239porcelain.htm) it states that they are also signed FBS France.
I also found this vase (http://www.glasshound.com/frenchartdeco_160.html) again, maker seems to be unknown.
???
Della
Mod: Links dead
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I want try and get this vases maker identified and this might take a few weeks... I think it is possible with this one. Your date is helpful.
At some point I will merge it with the other discussion on FBS. That thread is now close to this one in the list so you can see how the mark appears on Monart.
I am fairly certain that no such importer existed after 1950 in the US. Canada is another possibility. As far as I can tell it is quite unusual to insist on this type of mark from producers so it must be an important company even if it did not survive WWII.
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am amazed that you all are so active and helpful....not all Boards are as active.
Patti
As a matter of interest, how did you hear about this board? :)
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Hello Patti,
Not a great deal to add, other than to agree with Frank's observation that the FBS mark is almost certainly a retailer's mark. It is certainly seen on a variety of French glass, I had a smoke coloured glass vase with this mark some time ago. It had acid cut decoration and was most likely to have been made by Daum, though I couldn't say with absolute certainty.
On my vase the mark was an acid stamp with the divided circle similar to that shown on the Monart vase on Frank's site, however, mine differed in that there was a second, outer circle, containing the words 'TRADE MARK'.
Interestingly another example of your vase has turned up for sale, see here: http://www.stylefrenchantiques.com/pages/accessories.html
The seller has attributed it to Muller Freres, though I woud question this attribution as firstly the vase is unsigned and secondly the vase appears to have a coloured casing over a white core while the (admittedly few) Muller Freres mould blown opaline vases which I have handled have always been in solid uncased colours.
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I have found another one here (http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/porcelain/unidentified/images/gs001Unknown-Mark-0068-FBS.jpg) Maker unknown. :-\ I am not giving up!
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Excellent Della. What is now needed is a US trade directory for Pottery and Glass c1934-36. There were at least two produced.
I have digitised a 1951 Edition of China & Glass Red Book in the Glass Study. (Excluding pottery entries)
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I'll be darned....the shape of the Muller Freres vase is identical to my green mottled one. That's impressive! I've never seen anything like mine before so I'm pleased that it has a pink 'twin'! I'm just sorry there wasn't a price listed for the pink vase. Just curious, you understand!
I stumbled on your board through a google search on Monart. I had seen so much information but no one really to contact so this looked like a nice place to search for answers.
I appreciate the input you all have sent. I'm not a collector of much of anything unless it's Greyhound (dog-not bus) related and then I turn around and sell it on Ebay to raise funds for adoption groups. So, while I think the vase is interesting, I don't plan to keep it.
Are you all in England/Scotland? I'm in Springfield, Missouri USA
Patti
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The US trademarks database reveals this for FBS, but note the first use. Probably a red herring
G & S: RETAIL DEPARTMENT STORE SERVICES AND MAIL ORDER SERVICES OF SAME. FIRST USE: 19540802. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19540803
but it wasn't filed until 1971 and is now dead.
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It might not be a red herring, do you have a link to that db?
But then we have to assume wrong date info above. Trade mark information is usually more reliable than memory.
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Hi Patti, we are worldwide family not just the UK. The members of this board spread from US across the globe to Australia and New Zealand!
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Here's thelink (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=hgap0u.2.208) If it doesn't stay valid go to the root then search trademarks, basic search. It's on the last page of answers or search for regd no 0964411
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Thanks,
I could not find a specific note about the coverage, but it appears to be from around 1970. thus earlier registrations that have not been renewed since are not shown. Same problem with EU searches. The only solution is a physical visit to one of the US search facilities, any one in Arlington VA?
Remarkable though, how many FBS registrations there have been! :-\
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On one of the posts on this thread, there was a link to the "StyleFrench" store in West Hollywood, California. On their website, they have a picture of a pink vase that is identical in shape to my green vase. The site indicated that the vase is a Muller Freres.
I called the shop and asked where they found the information that is is a Muller Freres since the vase isn't marked. I was told that the style of vase was fairly common in France in the 30's and that the information could be found if I just Googled "Muller Freres".
I did that last night and couldn't find a thing that resembled my vase. I didn't have the pages translated that were not in English, so that may have been why I couldn't find it.
Not sure if that is any help to you all or not. I don't speak French and the gentleman with whom I spoke had more to say, but I just couldn't understand what he was saying.
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There are plenty of bad attributions on the web. We tend to ignore them, or treat as 'possible or probable' if there is nothing to back it up, until proof comes along. But you can use the attributions as starting points, often they trace baxk to a book, sometimes that confirms and other times there is just a dead end as the author does not give any sources for attribution.
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Thank you for the information I have received from you all. Since there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about this vase, I'm happy about what I do know.
At this point, I think I'll just go ahead and list it on ebay in a few weeks and let someone else figure out what it is.
I do appreciate your help, though.
Patti
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Another French example. Probably an enamelled mark as the piece had transfers and gold striping too.
http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=300140161974
Does anyone know which glassworks and actual years of production of this piece
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On my vase the mark was an acid stamp with the divided circle similar to that shown on the Monart vase on Frank's site, however, mine differed in that there was a second, outer circle, containing the words 'TRADE MARK'.
Missed that remark before, another one for a trade mark search, probably US. Not in on-line uspto database.
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I have a very similar mark on a Czech porcelain demitasse...
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They obviously covered a wide range of quality goods, it is remarkable that this still remains unknown! Howabout Fred's Bargain Store... g'night ;)
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A hand painted mark...
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/porcelain/unidentified/FBS-Italy.jpg
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I found a possible candidate in some recently arrived US list of importers from 1921 and 1922:
Ferdinand Bing & Co. 'S succrs (Presumably Successors)
Art Wares and Novelties, Pottery, Bronzes, Marble and Lamps.
67-69 Irving Pl. New York
I have no time to follow this up now.
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Just did a Google. Didn't find much though.
This talks about a legal issue with Ferdinand, etc. from 1914
http://books.google.com/books?id=p04LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA708&lpg=PA708&dq=%22Ferdinand+Bing+%26+Co%22&source=web&ots=r-F-QrAAsq&sig=SefDz_JdRjnKe68wLL7I5Zcw9F4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
This mentions them in passing, but gives dates 1898-1900 and 1905-1911, at some point during which there was correspondence with the firm. "Succrs" does mean "successors." Never heard the term in that context before.
http://www.albanyinstitute.org/collections/library/Research_and_Resources/FindingAids/Annesley&co.%20HP%2081-05.pdf
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That archive might contain examples of any logo they used! Anyone live in range?
Albany Institute of History & Art 125 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12210
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Maybe the Y shaped design is a basic copy of the Harrach Coat of Arms?
Mod: Link removed as content changed to inappropriate site
I did find a similar mark, this one attributed to the Harrach glass factory although it has different letters around it...
http://sites.google.com/site/loetzandglass/harrach--a-glass-mystery-solved
Just a thought.
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Different mark...
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/Porcelain-2/porcelain/unidentified/images/gs001Unknown-Mark-0039-FBS.jpg
This one set in a triangle....
http://www.figurines-sculpture.com/unusual-sevres-type-mark-with-red-triangle-fbs-france.html
The OOF and FBS marks must be somehow related to each other....
Compare this mark that Della posted...
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/porcelain/unidentified/images/gs001Unknown-Mark-0068-FBS.jpg
With these OOF marks....
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/Porcelain-2/porcelain/unidentified/images/gs001Unknown-Mark-0089-OOF.jpg
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/Porcelain-2/porcelain/unidentified/images/gs001Unknown-Mark-0090-OOF-Fischer&Mieg.jpg
Very similar.
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The net widens still further - thanks for adding in.
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I am not sure if my pictures posted....
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Not only did the pictures not post but neither did the text! Anyway, I posted some pictures of some glassware that I had on the murano forum. Someone told me that there was a discussion on this board about the same vase that I had...
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Looks French.
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Here are are a couple links that might help shade some light on the F.B.S. topic. I come across these two Monart U shaped vase whilst doing some research.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/339496 Monart vase, mauve, pastel particles, 7 3/8", bubb
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5197463 Monart Scottish Art Glass Vase, blue with mica,
Gary
Mod: HTML is disabled on the board so HTML code has been removed
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Detail on second item is odd! Marked "Monart, FBS, Scotland, Bootlano"
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Bootland, might be more plausible
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Here's yet another version of the FBS mark, this time on a 1930s opalescent glass vase by S. Reich & Co.
The vase is shown in Reich's 1934 catalogue as no. 8930 (Thanks to Seigmar Geiselberger of Pressglas-korrespondenz.de for the catalogue ref.).
The mark on this vase is silver in colour and has the usual FBS in the centre, surrounded by "CZECHO SLOVAKIA".
Steven
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Just had a report of another piece of Monart that clearly did not get exported....
One piece is the GL shape same colour as the piece in you book. However this vase has a "WATSON'S CHINA HOUSE , HIGH STREET, PERTH LABEL" and around the ground base it has the circular "FBS" mark, the base has been marked 3 times with the FBS mark.
:sc:
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Mod: The posts from here to reply 59 have been merged with the older FBS thread
:help:
Hello forum members -- Finally somewhere to maybe find this info! I have read all your posts on the FSB mark on glass, but havent been able to find much on FSB mark on ceramics.
I have an oblong/oval shaped dish withthe FSB inside a big Y mark and then a large circle around it (as shown in a photo on the other FSB discussion forum on this site. It also says Italy on the bottom of the dish and it is numbered == I have #3 of 104 (3/104). There are 2 different raised scenes on the dish -- one side if nudes (draped with cloth) standing, and the other side of the dish -- well, let's just say they have gotten LOTS friendlier!!! Very interesting artistic dish!!!
I've been researching the FSB for weeks and have have done extensve internet searching as well as tons of antique books and books about Italian marks and no luck. This is the only place I've been able to find anything close and thought maybe someone could help me out and that this may help in your research of the FSB trademark.
I can post photos of the dish if you'd like. I'm liquidating my mother's estate and very anxious to find out more about this dish!
Thank you to anyone who can help! I'll anxiously await replys
sao125
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We tend not to mention that it is found on ceramics too, because we are a glass board!
I have been hunting this mark for 20+ years so plenty of time for you yet :) but you will probably get no further than we have... unless of course it has been covered in a pottery reference somwhere... let us know if you get anywhere please.
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I've wondered about the mark, too. As mentioned before, it is like the mark for Barovier-Seguso-Ferro (BSF), a company in Murano in the 1930s that became Seguso Vetri d'Arte in 1937. I've wondered if they may have been involved in the marketing of the things that have the symbol. My thinking is probably naive, and going way beyond in inference -- much based on Seguso VdA managing Salviati. The companies did so much more than we are often aware of. I haven't been able to find anything about BSF beyond their glassmaking, but there were people who had connections in England, Czechoslovakia, and France. Who knows?
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Tsk Anita and you never commented in our mega FSB thread, could be an interesting avenue to explore. Do you have an example of the BSF mark?
MODS: This thread needs to be merged with the original thread... Mod: Now merged
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I read the original thread as it was happening, but didn't have anything definitive to offer beyond what was already written. I thought it probably just a coincidence that the letters were arranged around the Y in the same way, though I never fully dropped the idea that the mark may be something to do with BSF. Reading about the tie between Seguso and Salviati, and knowing Barovier and Salivati had ties with the three other countries made me wonder further. I put a picture of the BSF label on the Murano 101 labels the other day. I'll put it here, too, so people won't have to travel out of the thread to see it.
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BTW, there is a company that uses the letters FSB. I saw a piece the other day while I was looking that had their mark that was written in a straight line. Could they be German? I would have to backtrack -- I found a bit more about them, but didn't pay a lot of attention, since they weren't what I was looking for at the moment.
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This is intriguing Anita, all we now need is to find a company set up by these three as a general marketing organisation for European 'art' wares. The lack of results to date could well because it has a non 'English' speaking origin.
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Another thing, which may perhaps be coincidental, is the dates for the company (1932-37) coincide with the 1930s time frame that someone on the group mentioned for the mark.
I don't want to lead people down a bad path, so should point out that I am just speculating. The facts I have are sketchy, so it is a risky inference to say the mark is BSF for sure.
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We have nothing but sketchy so far... a US importer was my favourite to date but a European factor/exporter is an unexplored avenue. The time I have spent looking for US companies is great, I have never looked for an exporting organisation. Speculation is a starting point and your label is definitely the same mark. Timeframe is spot on too!
Now do we have any Italian members that can help trace Italian companies?
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Good evening everyone -- I know are you a glass board, but you were the only place I found any reference of FSB marking, so thought I'd try you. I really appreciate the help and also I feel I may have assisted you in your searching, too and maybe widened your possibilities.
Anyway -- I wanted to mention I did think of the Italian exporters amd artists and did some internet browsing, but kept running into sites written in languages I couldn't read. Hopeful an Italian forum friend helps out!
The mark on my ceramics piece was put there when it was made -- not a sticker and it's under the glazing I'm pretty sure. I can verify that tomorrow.
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sao, most of the marks I've seen are painted or acid stamped if I remember right. The only pieces I've seen with the labels have been those made by Barovier-Seguso-Ferro and they have Venetian Glass written around.
I hope the discussion is interesting to you, though I know it may not be helpful in attributing your ceramic dish. Perhaps we can find the company. There is another thing to consider. Sometimes marks were required or requested for import. But I don't even want to go there right now. :)
Glad you re-introduced this subject.
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Alfredo just provided a little more data to consider. He bought a Czech vase that has this type of mark, but the letters are FOO instead of FSB. This lets us know that the marks most likely are not Barovier-Ferro-Seguso, so we're back to square one. It is probably an import mark, but which company? And did the letters change because there was a change in ownership, or do the letters mean something else entirely.
No closer to an answer.
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That's a first! {resumably he refers to the shape of the design a circle with three radial lines segmenting equally?
Incidentally mark has been seen in just about every possible means of applying, engraved, acid, enamel and of course labels. On products from most European countries. Almost all of the earliest examples were found on pieces in US/Canada. It can only be an importer/factor and most likely North American from the 1930s.
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Hello everyone -- I finally got a photo of the mark on my dish to post here. Hopefully it will help us figure it out a bit more, but I doubt it! What a puzzle! I've searched through tons of books on antiques and also maker's marks, even looking for anything close that could have changed slightly when the company sold, etc., or any company names starting with F, S, or B, and even Y in case that's actually part of the mark and not just a divider between the letters, and I'm sure it's no surprise to all of you, but no luck yet. I have an idea I'm working on but it's probably not on the right track either. This is a challenge now!!! Keep searching!
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We will get there. One year.
Is that mark underglaze?
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a whole year?????? It's a race now!! Just kidding - I know you or someone mentioned they'd been looking for 20 years already!
I'm pretty positive that mark is under glaze. I'll look at it and double check tomorrow or Monday. (I'm not at the same location as the item.) Would you like me to post a couple photos of the item itself? (the good side, etc.)? It may help someone in the search.
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Most Italian pottery is marked like that over glaze
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One year, meant like one day ;) Yep it is me in year 20 or so... No value in pics of the object unless it can be matched to a catalogue of a company like Frederick Best Supplies & Co ::)
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Frank, did you get the two emails I sent to you? I don't know if your GMB email is still working.
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The "1" on the pottery mark is Continental, would never be used in the US. That might argue for a European distributor.
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Insert Quote
The "1" on the pottery mark is Continental, would never be used in the US. That might argue for a European distributor.
It was made in Italy, it would be marked at source for "FBS"
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Bl :kissy: dy Foreign Signature :-\
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well it might not be a foreign sig Frank. Could it be that they marked with the mark of the retailer they were sending to? Who could of course, be anywhere. Or is that unlikely?
m
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I'm also wondering if there is a significance in the 'Y' in that mark?
m
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An Aussie friend of Alfredo's suggested OFO may mean "of foreign origin" and BFS may mean "by foreign state." He thought these marks might have been related to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (USA) that required all imported things have a permanent mark of their origin. Still nothing definite, but the marks are forming a fan club of people looking.
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Frank was making a joke with BFS. It's not a signature; it's a mark of some sort M; the question who or what was it for and what does it stand for.
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yes I know that :sun: I was genuinely questioning the Y in the mark. And also the fact that the letters could stand for a retailer they were supplying.
m
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The retailer idea is one option, we just don't know who or where.
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:-[ now I have re read and actually digested the thread.
Sorry for stating the obvious ;D
m
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Hello everyone -- I'm going to post these additional photos of the oval dish that has the mark just in case it can help someone in the FSB-Y search. Maybe it will give someone a hint or clue of another place to look, etc. I only included the one side of the dish -- the other side is the 'friendlier' scene!
Sorry if this posted twice -- was having problems getting it to post.
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I'm sure this could be a red herring but remembering that Butler Brothers catalogues have Czech glass in and I thought they were importers/distributors (sorry, I don't know enough about these things so I'm just dredging info from memory) I looked them up to see if any retail/importer names came up. I'm guessing someone has already done this but thought I'd post the link here to see as a bit of 'brain storming' ;D
to see if the precis can maybe shed any light. They were part of something called the Ben Franklin Stores BFS? however it seems those stores were five and dime - does that mean cheap? so I don't know if any of the items being discussed would have retailed at those kind of stores anyway. Just thinking out loud.....Modified but I've left it in- I'm guessing that these kind of stores would not have been retailing any of the items .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_Brothers
m
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umm, still just thinking out loud here and a long shot I know but...Butler Brothers also had a chain called Federated...could FBS stand for Federated Butler Stores or something? according to what I've read Ben Franklin were 'variety stores' which seems to be five and dime but Federated are referred to as Department Stores. Given Butler Brothers imported Kralik glass they clearly did import things that I guess cost more than a five and dime type place might sell, so could it be that the Federated Stores (department stores) owners were the purchasers of these pieces?
m
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Monart would be classed as high end in the 30s and very expensive, as too would some of the other glass with the mark. Smoot-Hawley tariff act link is not likely as that merely required country of origin and all of the FBS marks on Monart also carried the Monart mark used ONLY for export to the USA. Further, not all Monart with the US export mark carried the FBS mark. The main benefit of the act which was dropped in 1944 is that we know the FBS mark was used somewhere in the period of 1930 to 1939 (maybe until 1944 but not Monart.) This, as far as I am concerned, is the worst documented area of US glass trade history and many of the companies in the business changed names or just disappeared during WW2..
sao125 what is the date of your piece?
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No idea at all on the date of my piece. Found it at my mom's house (estate). My dad had a antique store and bought stuff everywhere. When mom saw something she liked that dad had bought or she thought it was worth money, she'd snatch it. I'm guessing this was one of those occurences. Or else she may have found it at a garage sale. It was out in the garage, wrapped in newspaper from around the year 2000, and then inside a plastic bag and written on it was 'old dish'. I didn't ever remember seeing it before and I'm sure it wouldn't have been my grandma's (because of the scene on the other side of it, she wouldn't have let it in her house I don't think!)
I'm sure it's not from the Ben Franklin store though. I've been to probably a hundred different Ben Franklin stores in my life. They weren't super cheap, but usually reasonable. They were a variety store and had a small departments of things: some giftware, fabric, yarn, crafts, some clothing, hardware, linens, towels, cards, toys, even used to have live birds and goldfish, etc. They were individually owned franchises - not a chain store, so they did their own ordering. As far as glassware/ceramics, the only 'brand' I can think of that I ever saw them carry was Enesco. Another point that it wouldn't been Ben Franklin is they NEVER sold any limited edition or numbered items. This dish is #3 of 108 that were made.
I'm also sure that Ben Franklin didn't carry any of your high end glass -- their's was always very reasonable priced -- I recall purchasing some little glass dishes when I was young for about 19 cents each and they were seamed glass.
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sorry if this is a dumb question -- are the glass items marked FSB colored glass???? I'm on a good lead!
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This dish is #3 of 108 that were made.
Unless your dish is pretty new, that's unlikely to be an edition mark; it's far more likely to be the decorator's mark
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sorry if this is a dumb question -- are the glass items marked FSB colored glass???? I'm on a good lead!
All types of mostly art-deco period glass.
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Solved. Ferdinand Bing & Co. Successors (1900-31) then Friedlander Buying Service (1931-WW2)
http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/related/usa/newyork-08/index.php
Spotted by Tony.
[Mod: edited to add] ... Just in case the URL does not work at some stage ...
The above businesses were successive proprietors of a New York importer / retailer - originally Ferdinand Bing & Co from at least 1888.
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Brilliant!
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This is great information which answers a long asked question.
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Amazing - I can't believe it's finally been found :) I've only just seen this post.
m
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Yeah, here's a glass vase from Czechoslovakia...
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/696013_czechoslovakia-cased-glass-vase
http://www.ebay.com/itm/large-RED-SWIRL-BULBOUS-VASE-Czechoslovakia-glass-FBS-Friedlander-Buying-Serv-/371399557555
Anyone recognise it? Welz crossed my mind but shape isn't really their style.
Found this too....
One of the best displays of Vienna glass ever seen
is now on display at Ferdinand Bing & Co.'s. The
coloring and shapes are quite out of the ordinary, and
appeal at once to the discriminating buyer. Visiting
buyers when inspecting this line should also take oc-
casion to see their line of marbles from Italy. There
are many beautiful pieces in what is possibly the largest
exhibit they have ever had.
https://archive.org/stream/crockeryglassjou86newy/crockeryglassjou86newy_djvu.txt
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I have recently had an alternate theory on this subject shared with me, but the individual who researched it does not have access to some documents at the Rakow which may provide the final pieces to confirm it. In the near future, I am going to request some documents from the Rakow on an inter-library lend for microfiche relating to my Welz research, and I am going to include the documents needed by the individual doing the work.
If there is validity to the theory, which at this point seems reasonably plausible, the information will be posted in this forum. So this may actually not be completely solved yet....
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Frank,
Check EBay item no 371692701016, which is listed as Monart!
It has an etched FBS Mark on the base together with France below it.
The vendor gives a possible attribution of FBS to be Ferdinard Bing &Co Successors or Friedlander Buying Service both being importers of glass into the USA from many countries between 1900 - 1931.
It might be worthwhile contacting the seller to discover his source of information.
Keith :)
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Just noticed other info on the subject ::) ::) ::)
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Brilliant!;) (http://cheapfirstclass.com/singapore-airlines/)
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[Mod: post edited to point to thread about the vase. ]
Here is a picture of a vase I inherited from my grandma with the FBS France mark on the bottom. I was trying to get information about it when a member pointed me to this thread. I would appreciate any information about it. Thanks!
For details about this vase, please see: French Glass vase with bronze (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,64703.msg362422.html#msg362422)