Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: a40ty on December 18, 2007, 08:28:31 PM
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Good evening glass friends,
This may not be everyone's taste but it spoke/ shouted to me...
www.lauritz.com item number 1164541
Will drive to Hamburg at the weekend to collect it, can't wait ;D
If anyone has an idea who the maker is, I'd be very grateful! Also, the technique, how have they done it? Taken a rectangular form, draped the glass over it, formed it and then cooled it? It wiouldn't be possible otherwise or would it?
Look forward to your reactions! :)
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is it the table?
coming to Hamburg, why not drop in?
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Beautiful.... :clap: http://www.lauritz.com/Item/Item.aspx?LanguageId=2&ItemId=1164541&nBids=5 (http://www.lauritz.com/Item/Item.aspx?LanguageId=2&ItemId=1164541&nBids=5)
What is the size of it?
Be careful with it..... ;) it looks delicate....and again, lovely...
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is it the table?
coming to Hamburg, why not drop in?
yup, it's the table. Pamela ,where are you? If we have time, we'll drop in.
What is the size of it?
Hi Antiquerose,
It's not so big.. 140cm long, 70 cm wide and 38.5 cm high but I reckon it weighs quite a bit :o
Me and my spaghetti arms, helppp someone!
Have to get it home to Denmark, that's all. :)
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It's fabulous, and quite a sizeable coffee table and you'll never have to iron the tablecloth
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As you guessed, it was probably created by placing a flat sheet of glass over a former and heating it to around 700 deg C where it would slump to form this shape, with a little manual help, in much the same way as handkerchief vases.
Must have been quite a large furnace to accomodate this. Not sure it's quite what I like (difficult to tell without seeing it properly), but a fascinating piece and I'd be interested to know its history.
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As you guessed, it was probably created by placing a flat sheet of glass over a former and heating it to around 700 deg C where it would slump to form this shape, with a little manual help, in much the same way as handkerchief vases.
Must have been quite a large furnace to accomodate this. Not sure it's quite what I like (difficult to tell without seeing it properly), but a fascinating piece and I'd be interested to know its history.
Thanks David! Do you think they used shears for glass ( what are they actually called, is there a word? ) to cut the sides shorter?
If it gets to Denmark safely, I'll take some pictures. And I hope they will have an idea of it's origin, in Germany.
Please keep fingers crossed for safe transport :)
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It looks as though it were created from a pre-cut rectangular sheet of 5mm(?) thick glass, or thicker, then slumped. I would imagine it was cut with normal diamond-point glazier's cutting tool, and very much doubt it was cut to shape while malleable, but Ivo might be able to comment further.
Hard to tell what type of glass it is, but could be armoured, or laminated, perhaps? If so, then it might take some very rough handling (I reckon you could probably smack it with a hammer!) and is actually tougher than it looks. I wonder if Health & Safety approved it though? ;D
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... it was probably created by placing a flat sheet of glass over a former and heating it to around 700 deg C where it would slump to form this shape, with a little manual help, in much the same way as handkerchief vases. ...
How was the former removed?
Bernard C. 8)
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It was probably sectional.
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Good point - perhaps there is enough room for the table to be removed at an angle. Although it appears textured to the top surface, I can't see how the corners could have been 'slumped' upwards: besides, the edges are much too sharp.
It might have been draped over a framework that was dismantled after it had cooled.
[Frank's reply just came in, sort-of pre-empting this]
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... it was probably created by placing a flat sheet of glass over a former and heating it to around 700 deg C where it would slump to form this shape, with a little manual help, in much the same way as handkerchief vases. ...
David, nice theory, but I don't believe it.
There are just not enough folds. And it doesn't explain the very neat corners.
I've been trying this out with a tablecloth over a rectangular table.
I think it has to be pressed glass, with the sides at 90° to the top of the table, and then slightly flared. Then reheated to bring the legs down to the vertical position with the sides folding as we see.
Bernard C. 8)
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I think it IS slumped and that this shows through the smoothness of the clear walls compared to the surface texturing. It could also have been made using a plaster former that could be easily broken away afterwards. The thickness of the glass would limit the amount of movement and thus folds, I would expect it to be very controlled slumping with the glass being almost forced into position. But just guessing.
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I shall be in Bürgerweide tomorrow 21.12. from about noontime until afternoon about 5.00h
would be pleased to receive you then :chky:
mobile phone to follow directly to your email address if available here - if not - mail me to arminewa aol com
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I shall be in Bürgerweide tomorrow 21.12. from about noontime until afternoon about 5.00h
would be pleased to receive you then :chky:
mobile phone to follow directly to your email address if available here - if not - mail me to arminewa aol com
thanks Pamela, :kissy: will check it out in and see if it works. I'm not at all familiar with Hamburg so I'll have to see how to get from Elbstrasse to your place but I would really like to see your collection! We will be in Hamburg from around 12.00 to 16.00 on the 22nd. December.
If it doesn't work this time, no problem, we can always come another time, without car and cumbersome glass table!!
It looks as though it were created from a pre-cut rectangular sheet of 5mm(?) thick glass,
Hi David, I've measured the depth of the glass on the shelves that house my humble collection and the depth is 10mm, hardened glass. It looks pretty close to the depth on the table thickness. I'm in the 70 -80kg. ballpark, what do you say? I think I'm talking 180cm x 1000cm all told, but I have no idea what 10mm glass weighs per m2. Do you have an idea here?
( Now you can see I'm worried about the actual lifting of the table, perhaps I should take some strong slings with me..)
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about 82 Kg assuming 2,500 kg.cu.m .22 x . 15 x 2500
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Thank you! :)
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I think it IS slumped and that this shows through the smoothness of the clear walls compared to the surface texturing. It could also have been made using a plaster former that could be easily broken away afterwards. The thickness of the glass would limit the amount of movement and thus folds, I would expect it to be very controlled slumping with the glass being almost forced into position. But just guessing.
Agreed, Frank. I was rather kite flying — I just wanted to be sure that everyone was quite sure it was slumped from a flat sheet of glass, had properly thought it through, and had not just assumed this to be the case.
Bernard C. 8)
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David, nice theory, but I don't believe it.
There are just not enough folds. And it doesn't explain the very neat corners.
I've been trying this out with a tablecloth over a rectangular table.
I think it has to be pressed glass, with the sides at 90° to the top of the table, and then slightly flared. Then reheated to bring the legs down to the vertical position with the sides folding as we see.
So you agree with Frank, but don't believe me? :huh:
I did think it through: to my mind, the best way the ultra-smooth sides could have been created would have been initially from a flat sheet of drawn or float glass - probably the latter. Either way, I'm sure it started life as a flat sheet of glass.
Surely to realise a piece of pressed-glass this size, would have needed an enormous press? And to achieve the smoothness of the folds would have needed ultra-careful preparation of the moulds - probably chrome-plated? Again, for something so large, surely this would have been a complete non-starter?
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And how does the press operate? You argue against slumping, but the same problem of removing the former exists.
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David, Bernard was just probing our analyses not doubting our veracity and ultimately bowing to the combined wisdom without partisanship. Perhaps it is just a question of style.... 8)
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I'm delighted that my post has generated this discussion!
I'm only a very happy dabbler but I would like to know how it was produced. When I get it home ( hopefully without becoming 2-D in the process) are there certain areas which I should try to photograph which would help?
I'm sort of kicking around an idea that the flat surface has been resting on a metal plate when the whole sheet was heated and that that might give the horizontal the texture... :-\
I cannot wait to get my hands on it! ;D
Hi pamela, was just going to try and contact you. I'll try and message you, haven't done that before so please be patient... oops you're there again. I'll post this and try to get in touch ;)
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In my opinion, this is definitely slumped from a sheet of window glass. I think David is spot on, as we should expect, given his expert knowledge of kiln forming.
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Aine/pronounce Onya and Gert dropped in and the table they shot at Lauritz is fabulous, really! I feel happy with them :chky:
Thank you for visiting, it was my pleasure to receive you!
Big hugs !
Aine, what we all need and want I think are photos of the underneath textured top - right?
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Thank you Pamela, you are way too kind!
It's a truly amazing collection you have, :clap: I was just blown away.
we got it home safely and here are some pictures, taken while the sun was still shining. Unfortuately the sun went before I could get the underside photographed :(
It is 10 mm glass and the total length i.e. from folded corner to folded corner is 140cm. Table top is 122 cm Total width corner to corner is 70 cm, whilst actual top is just 62 cm.
It didn't weigh nearly as much as I expected, in fact it can be quite easily lifted. Inverting it is not quite so easy ;D
Table top: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9022
Close up texturing on upper surface: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9021
edge and side, these "marks" appear at a few irregular intervals and only along the long sides http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9023
corner where the glass almost seems to have been "pulled" downwards: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9024
and another one of the corner, just different lighting: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9025
look forward to hearing if anyone has any more light to cast on it!
In the meantime, have a Very Merry Christmas!
with best wishes :st:
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...any more light to cast on it!
;D
The texture is not on the sides or legs?
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Hi Frank, no, the texture smoothens/fades out just before the glass curves/pours down to form the sides and legs. Sides and legs are completely smooth.
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Which implies that the sheet was made with an untextured section, I could believe some smoothing at the curves but not on the flat areas. If the glass was made especially for these tables presumably quite a few were made. Are there any markings anywhere? Particularly the metal legs.
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Not a sausage. :'(
My instinct says that the legs were made specially for the table..
Another thing, the upper surface is not completely flat, it undulates very slightly all over because of the structur/texture underneath. Could they have done this?
1. Made a sheet which was textured in the middle on the upper surface. Next..
2. Turned it over so that the texture was on the underside. Next.
3. Placed it on a rectangular frame( material as yet, unknown) and heated it.
that way, the upper surface would be acceptably smooth and even.
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I have seen these tables with those legs before, I believe they are made by a particular company.
The slump could also have been a lift, I have no idea if they had to heat the whole sheet and work quickly around it lifting, or pushing down, the edges. Or if they could work around it heating it more locally as they go.
If heating the whole thing and not using a flat former, I presume that can lead to the undulations.
Texturing a section is feasible, the pattern most probably comes from a roller. You can by panels with such textured centre sections.
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Aine, if a roller has been used to create the textured surface (most likely), you should be able to detect a repeat in the pattern. Can you confirm this?
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Not if it was a large roller doing a centralised panel. But in the meantime I have found examples of glass that has been textured by slumping. So the texture could have been done just for this table...
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Aine, if a roller has been used to create the textured surface (most likely), you should be able to detect a repeat in the pattern. Can you confirm this?
Hi David, no, it seems very random.
I have seen these tables with those legs before, I believe they are made by a particular company.
The slump could also have been a lift, I have no idea if they had to heat the whole sheet and work quickly around it lifting, or pushing down, the edges. Or if they could work around it heating it more locally as they go.
If heating the whole thing and not using a flat former, I presume that can lead to the undulations.
Texturing a section is feasible, the pattern most probably comes from a roller. You can by panels with such textured centre sections.
Hi Frank,
I found, I think, the name of the table but not the maker. It seems to be called "Ghostly Feet", :huh: pretty odd name in my opinion.
Merry Christmas and thanks for all the help, everyone!!
:st:
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So it is http://modernself.com/design/fluid-glass-coffee-table/ but Ultra Modern are a US store and no longer list this design... as the example was posted May 2007 perhaps Ultra Modern will tell you who made your table.
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Well found - as the link given to the Ultra Modern web site is broken, try: http://www.umodern.com/
http://www.umodern.com/p/33150.asp - this might be by the same company? Ultra-large bent glass does tend to feature.
The link to http://design-milk.com/ghost-feet/ shows similar tables
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These have been around a long time though. Although I cannot remember when and where I saw them, it could easily have been as far back as the 1980's or 70's.
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I just LOVE this table, but can someone tell me how the metal legs would have been attached to the glass? Emmi
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Pics are not saved, but the Way Back Machine has the page saved:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070503052802/http://www.umodern.com/p/33148.asp (page dated May 3rd, 2007.)
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The photo did pop up after a few seconds, but is the same as one already seen.
Over $1,000 - reckon you did well there, Aine!
Edit: just found this site, which suggests it is still made:
http://www.forexample.it/prodotti/prodotti2.asp?cat=tavolini&ID=129
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WOW! Can't put all the quotes in, would take me all morning.. Thank you all so much for taking the time to look for it. Once I could see that Ultramodern didn't stock it any more, I stopped searching. ( what a faint heart...)
DavidE and Anne :kissy: :kissy:
You're gems! How on earth did David find the company? I've looked at all their tables, boy, some of them are just spectacular. I was really luck price-wise, all told with petrol, ferry, provision, I paid about halfprice ;D
Emmi.. the legs are glued on.
Again, thanks for all the help; now I'll try and get the company to reveal it's method of production.. I'm still very curious!
One Happy Christmas Teddy signing off :chky: :chky: