Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Springhead on January 08, 2008, 10:36:03 AM
-
Does anybody know who made this one?
-
Does it have any indication (label/mark) of being Murano? If not I'll move it over to Glass Id.
-
Pink canes imbedded in cristalo glass with ash inclusions would seem to indicate to me it is murano glass. I would respectfully point out to you that 90 percent of postings on this board are of pieces that are not marked or labeled. See below for a comparison of the canes in the pitcher below which is also not marked but which I'm pretty sure is Murano glass.
-
Springhead, the vase reminds me of some of the sommerso paperweight vases that are made in China. I notice that your vase doesn't have the same type of rim, though. Is the rim rounded or ground? I have the feeling that the vase may not be Murano. I can't say for sure because I do not recognize the vase.
Anita
-
No disrespect, Springhead, but the main glass forum gets more visitors than the Murano forum and an item is normally viewed more often and a response given (if one is unsure of the land of origin). Once members are of the opinion that the item is of Murano (or Scottish, etc.) origin, then it is normally moved to the correct forum.
-
I'm pretty sure this is an Archimede Seguso vase from the 1950's
https://web.archive.org/web/20080705144342/http://www.italian-glass.net:80/seguso.html [Mod: link updated to show original website not its current adult site.]
Not a Chinese sommerso paperweight... heh...
-
A little background... The first Italian art glass vase I ever sold was the Alfredo Barbini sommerso piece seen on page 73 of Leslie Pina's Fifties Glass in which she refers to the insiso as "etched lines"... That was around 1978 or 9... I must have gotten it pretty cheap 'cause I sold it for $65 and was very happy... I have learned a lot since then including how to tell a vintage piece of Italian art glass from a made in china paperweight. I also have been selling on eBay since 1997 and while pondering whether the bowl you had just purchased for fifty cents at a garage sale is Fratelli Toso or not you may have noticed a few of my early Venini pieces sell at a pretty good level...
Move the vase if you see fit but I was hoping for an open minded and fair discussion of this piece of glass with knowledgeable people.
-
Springhead, half the people you are talking to on the group are Murano sellers. We challenge each other all the time on this and other groups. There are no absolutes when it comes to glass. And there are few people -- even the experts -- that have a fraction of the answers.
About the Chinese glass -- Some of the Chinese pieces are actually very good quality. I am attaching a copy of a nice one that rivals the work of Orient & Flume. Chinese do get a bad name because much of the modern work coming out of the country is shoddy. (I have a Chinese copy of the vase pictured that is low quality work.) The Chinese used to be among the most masterful in making glass, pottery, and ceramics. I am sure that there is still a lot of quality pieces made.
Again, as I said before, I do not know if your vase is Chinese. It just reminded me of some of the vases.
Anita
-
I took a look at some more pictures of the vase in your store and noticed it was not as deep as it is wide. I also noticed the spiral went onto the bottom. Seeing these things gave me an entirely different view. I hope someone can identify the vase. It is very pretty.
Anita
-
I have a piece of glass (not as pretty as this) that has long puzzled me. It has applied lattimo stripes spiralling round the vase and with vertical lattimo stripes embedded in the vase. In the (vain) hope that the vase might be something it's not, I've been looking at vases with applied spirals for quite while. I can't recall any Seguso looking like this (nastro richiamato is a bit of a stretch). The closest I ever found was a fasce by Scarpa for Venini, which is close in spirit to this vase.
However, Springhead has far more knowledge and experience than me so I'd be interested to hear why he thinks it's Seguso.
BTW, the second edition of Fifities Glass, Pina changed "etched" to "textured with fine lines on the surface." I guess it shows we can all learn. $65 for the Barbini makes me weep.
David
-
Can we see a good shot of the underside please? I'm inclined to think Polish or Chinese, not Murano...
-
I have to admit that while Ivo was posting I was wondering about Poland. I also see no resemblance with the striped jug except the pink colour
-
Well... I agree that some things can be difficult. But... as I'm sure we can also agree that you don't jump to conclusions and label people's merchandise as being a cheap chinese or polish thing without any evidence at all. All the reputable dealers I know abide by this.
Bad move Ivo I had some hope for you after reading some of your posts.
Another person cannot see the same pink canes but can see orchids... heh...
Show me a china or polish piece with ash inclusions... second thought...
don't bother you have "helped" enough already... heh...
-
What are you on?
As a "reputable" dealer you would of course never fall into the trap of wishful attributions. Just because you want it to be Murano does not make it so, and additional information is required. And let me remind you it is you who introduced the word "cheap" in the discussion.
As Lustrousstone correctly remarked, there is no relation between the clear cased thickwalled ball vase and the Latticino piece other than a partial colour resemblance. You are further wrong in describing the pink ribbon as a "cane" and the clear casing as "cristallo".
cheerz
-
I dont understand why the defensiveness Springhead.
We are here to help and talk about the glass. I also agree it does not look Murano to me.
Everyone here disagrees from time to time on what a piece is or where it came from.
There is no need to call out people the way you just did for their opinions.
Lets just get level headed, everyone.
cool? k!
Javier
-
I would also add that Polish glass can be often of good quality and it's certainly not always cheap. The thing it probably sometimes lacks is originality.
-
Springhead, I would also respectfully point you in the direction of the Board Policy post here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6521.0.html where it states:
Guidance for posting messages on The Glass Message Board
Please post all identification questions in the GLASS or GLASS PAPERWEIGHTS forums - the other forums are intended for more general discussions.
- in other words, for identifying any glass item other than a PAPERWEIGHT the proper place to post is in GLASS. The specialist subject forums are intended for discussion of known source items, so if something has already been ID'd as Murano or Scandi, then post about it in the Murano or Scandi forum.
Also, in the Board Policy post you will note:
For your guidance, the following are not permitted on the Glass Message Board
* Messages containing elements that are obscene, vulgar, blasphemous, racist or sexist
* Messages that are defamatory or libelous. As this is not always immediately clear, the Moderator(s) may err on the side of caution.
Possible reasons for removal of messages by the Moderator(s) would include: those which are offensive to other people, for reasons other than the content of the argument being made (if any); messages which pertain to personal disputes; messages which are threatening, intimidatory, insulting, obscene, abusive, or obnoxious; attempts to deliberately deceive other members. As this is not always immediately clear, the Moderator(s) may err on the side of caution.
Your comments above border on what some here would consider to be patronising, and to Ivo, who is a known and respected world authority on Glass, to be somewhat insulting. Please do bear in mind that this is a serious glass discussion board and that many of those who contribute have been doing so for many years and have considerable knowledge of glass at all levels, not just as dealers. We treat each other with courtesy and welcome others who do the same.
-
Moderator
please remove this post
-
Moderator: Please leave this post in. It will serve to remind us what an arrogant person this Springhead is. He says above "not to jump to conclusions" but he has jumped to the conclusion this is Murano and is closing his ears to any other expert advice, and has insulted some of the most knowledgeable glass people around in the process. Bah Humbug!!!!
Oh, and I won't be going down Ruby Lane either!!
-
Needs size and a picture of the base please.
-
I think she just wants this discussion to go away - the vase is oval in section, 5 1/2 " x 7" according to the website and priced at 850$$. Yes that is right, not attributed but priced at eight hundred and fifty American pesos.
-
850 USD!!!!!!!!! For an unattributed piece? Not surprised she wants the discussion to go away!!
-
I decided after all to take a stroll down Ruby Lane. Saw on the home page:
"... we guarantee the authenticity of all our items"
-
There is a base view there, polished flat. Not really oval as the base almost comes to a point at the sides.
-
Show me a china or polish piece with ash inclusions.
I'm not familiar with the expression "ash inclusions". This could be a language thing. Could you elaborate? Exactly what does it refer to? Thanks.
-
I do so like consistency: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,18541.0.html
-
The term ash inclusions might have relevancy to those paperweights and other items that contain Mount St Helen's volcanic ash from the Glass Eye Studio
-
Bone ash is used in opaline glass. You could find loose ash in any of these Leerdam pieces LINK (http://www.royalleerdamcrystal.com/ned/memoriafra.htm). There are also the funerary glassware in which your loved ones ashes are mixed with the metal while making the object. LINK (http://www.funeral-urn.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=1)
Meanwhile what Anne has high-lit is the illogical aspect of names as a determinant of value. Master craftsmen become that way through practise and a good eye, rightly their finest works are lauded - but as few can afford those special items others take the Maestros failures and average work. In the age of the connoisseur there were so few collectors that there was plenty to go around, today collectors and producers can be numbered in millions (past and present) and fame becomes fleeting for some and lasting for a few. With such numbers it is highly likely that "one off" masterpieces by the likes of Frederich Chomeley or Susan Chi-Lin do exist... but they remain unknown and never to be discovered. The objects because of their rare beauty will almost certainly do above average on eBay, or elsewhere, but might not exceed the average $400 that unispired mass produced Lalique ashtray would fetch, not to mention a Swarovski item. Who are the collectors that spend such sums on these objects with names but little or no aesthetic merits.
Connoisseurship also, largely, rejected proletarian and industrial glassware as of no importance, yet today there is a healthy interest in such objects and in general at sensible prices. Collectors of these mundane items get to experience a living history with no pretensions, they can compare the utility value of their collection with that of modern day accountant led design.
Not being a particular follower of Murano, I find much of it blobby and indifferent, some I find attractive and a few pieces have left me with a life enriching experience. But I can get almost as much joy from discovering a new Moncrieff ink-bottle or a length of Gauge tubing... my quest for a red-striped gauge glass has yet to be fulfilled. This particular vase is one of a type of decoration that I like but to be honest I do not think it is a 'great' piece of glass nor particularly well executed. When I first saw it, I was immediately reminded of similar Polish glass that I lust over, so here I had a focal point of comparison. But the piece, of this genre, that got me hooked was owned by another member here... I regularly look for an example of its equal but there is always something not quite right. It is of course intriguing that two others were also leaning to Poland. I wonder if it is a Polish design originally, that has been copied by Muranese and others.
-
I'm sorry for this person's attitude, we US people are not all this rude. It's a wonder why we are so disliked.
-
We experience behavioue like that from other countries too, it is a person level not nationality thing.
-
Bad move Ivo I had some hope for you after reading some of your posts.
:o I must admit, I suck my breath in sharply when I read someone 'having a pop at' Ivo! :spls:
I know none of us is perfect, and Ivo would be (and indeed has been) the first to admit that no-one's perfect, and that even he makes mistakes. But .... it's IVO! :o As in IVO HAANSTRA! :D I can't believe some people don't KNOW who he is, and would post remarks like this!!!!! :-X :hb2:
-
There is an old saying Leni, "ignorance is bliss" ::)
ISBN 1840004290
Format Hardcover
Author Ivo Haanstra
Publisher Octopus Publishing Group, 2001
Pages 176
-
Owing to some of the remarks in this topic being inconsistent with the Board's policy, this thread has been locked.