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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sue C on January 14, 2008, 03:29:33 PM

Title: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Sue C on January 14, 2008, 03:29:33 PM

Hi all, got this today, but there are no mark's whatsoever, i think it is a Spaniel with it's tongue hanging out, about seven inches long.
Forgot to mention that he is filthy dirty, and is about to have a bath.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 14, 2008, 04:40:04 PM

 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Spaniels hate clean water...I've got one. Dirty water is best. Let me know if you ebay it please

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Sue C on January 14, 2008, 05:15:36 PM

"i think it is a Spaniel with it's tongue hanging out, about seven inches long"

 ::) i meant the piece of glass, not the dog's tongue

I will Christine.

I have searched the web and cant find any other examples  :-\ does anyone have any other links?

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: antiquerose123 on January 14, 2008, 06:21:44 PM

 :mrgreen: me too....green with envy

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: mrvaselineglass on January 15, 2008, 01:34:55 PM

There was a yellow vaseline version on ebay about a week ago that did not sell.  Also, did you know that there were two molds?  These came as a pair.  One has it's head turning to the right, the other one has the head turning to the left.  Sort of mirror image, like bookends.  I am not sure if they are Derbyshire or not.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Sue C on January 15, 2008, 02:31:57 PM

Hi Dave, yes i know they should be a pair, but thanks for the info.
I wonder why it didn't sell, damage? priced to high? or just because there was only one?

Who do you think may have made them Dave?

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: mrvaselineglass on January 15, 2008, 03:22:55 PM

the piece was undamaged, just had a high initial starting bid.  I dont recall how many GBP, but it was about $185 USD.  I don't think it was due to not having a pair for sale, as these just dont show up very often.  Jenny Thompson states in her book that the distinctive ridged plinth on the Newfoundland is the same as on the lion and greyhound (which are marked) and that the Newfoundland dog is generally attributed to Derbyshire, but is an unmarked piece.  I have always thought they were Derbyshire. 

by the way, a vaseline greyhound sold in the US in a live auction about 3 o4 4 months ago for $1300 USD + 20% buyer's premium.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on January 15, 2008, 03:44:56 PM

I do not think anyone has a 100% answer as to the maker of the dog, I have had people tell me Davidson but I still would say Derbyshire was a much stronger bet, Derbyshire's Queen Victoria figure was unmarked, there was also one other similar dog forward facing on a ridged plinth that was made and very seldom seen, also unmarked and that seems to be attributed to Greener

Roy

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Bernard C on January 16, 2008, 05:11:18 AM

Quote from: mrvaselineglass

... a vaseline greyhound sold in the US in a live auction about 3 o4 4 months ago for $1300 USD + 20% buyer's premium.

Dave — The one piece of English pressed that could break all records, if it exists, is the Derbyshire Old Rugged Cross in vaseline/canary.   I've only ever seen the one, in unfrosted flint, and that example looked as if it had spent some time in a toy box.   It's a beautifully sculpted piece on a delightfully rocky base.    It's a mystery to me why it's such a rarity.

Quote from: mhgcgolfclub

... there was also one other similar dog forward facing on a ridged plinth that was made and very seldom seen, also unmarked and that seems to be attributed to Greener ...

Roy — This, if we are talking about the same dog, was by Percival Vickers.   It's forward facing, rather shaggy and almost leonine in appearance, and is on a simple angled gadrooned oval base.   I can't see a tail in the photograph, so if there is one, it's on its right side.   The height is given as 12.5cm, but this measurement may not be accurate, as the photograph was of an example in private ownership, and the measurement may have been supplied to the author of the article, a museum person, as a measured 5", and translated into metric.   As an aside, isn't it ludicrous that the obsession of British museum authorities with the metric system leads to such uncertainty and inaccuracy.    If it was a measured 5", then it should have been given as either 5" or 5" (12.5cm).

This dog is the only example of PV's 1870s fancies to appear in their 1881 Pressed Glass Catalogue.   Why is not known, but one explanation is that there was a separate catalogue of fancies, now lost.   It looks very Derbyshire in style, and, as we know that the Manchester factories actively co-operated with each other, it seems reasonable to not exclude the possibility that all these Manchester dogs were sculpted by the same mouldmaker.

Source:- Barbara Yates, The Glasswares of Percival Vickers & Co. Ltd., Jersey Street, Manchester, 1844–1914, in The Journal of The Glass Association, Volume 2, 1987.   I believe this volume is still in print and available from both The Glass Association and Broadfield House Glass Museum.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: mrvaselineglass on January 16, 2008, 05:20:19 AM

Bernard
I did not even know about such an item as the old rugged cross.  interesting!  I think the most expensive piece of english pressed novelty glass that I have seen is the BURTLES, TATE elephant in primrose pearline (yellow opalescent).  There may be other pieces that go higher, but that one comes on the market about once every 1-2 years, so it is common enough for people to know about it.  I have never seen the sphinx that is in Ray Slack's book, so I have no idea how high that one sells for when it comes on the market. I would think it would also be very expensive.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Bernard C on January 17, 2008, 11:33:00 AM

Dave — I was thinking (but forgot to note) pressed vaseline, so I didn't consider the BT elephant, the MW sphinx, or the Derbyshire winged sphinx, none of which are likely to be found in vaseline.   However a canary Old Rugged Cross that glows in sunshine seems to me to be a real possibility.

... and I seem to be guilty of an anachronism, or, more correctly, a prochronism, as Wikipedia tells us that The Old Rugged Cross wasn't written until 1912, by your countryman, the Methodist evangelist George Bennard.   So I wonder what the inspiration for this not-quite-upright chunky cross on a rock was back in the 1870s.   Has anyone any ideas?

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Frank on January 17, 2008, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: Bernard C on January 17, 2008, 11:33:00 AM

as Wikipedia tells us that The Old Rugged Cross wasn't written until 1912,

Tut, again Wikipedia sjows its limitations as a carrier of populist knowledge not the depth or accuracy of traditional encyclopædias! Try Brittanica.

The Old Rugged Cross is a protestant/political 'thingy' (great academic term ;) ) as a symbol of piety. The idea being that the upper classes are respected and the riff-raff who in turn should bow to them and nail themselves to the Old Rugged Cross so that they get lots of splinters and suffer properly for being such miserable wretches in the first place! It seems likely it was spurred on by the events of the French revolution. I think it also has to do with Malthusianism. No doubt the glass model represents a real rugged cross somewhere - if it was issued at a time of strong protestant influence it must have been condemned - as making it from glass is the antithesis of the concept and thus became rare.

From Wikipedia  :o Thomas Robert Malthus, FRS (13 February 1766 – 23 December 1834)

Lousy term to Google for... millions of pages.

The concept would have been very unpopular in the early 1900's as the proletarian revolution started to bite, it is in intriguing that the song was written at such a time as it effectively gave new meaning to the expression, burying the old interpretation through popularism.

Glass can certainly carry a political message but a souvenir just lacks the oomph of a popular song.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Bernard C on January 18, 2008, 04:31:33 AM

Frank — My apologies.   I don't really follow you.   I was just trying to find out where the idea for this chunky cross may have come from back in the 1870s.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Frank on January 18, 2008, 01:51:08 PM

Me too Bernard, it was already an old idea by 1870. This particular example is quite possibly a model of a real world one made as a souvenir.

The point of my earlier notes being that it is not very easy to get anywhere searching the web as the hymn tends to dominate results, old encyclopædia are more likely to give you your answer.

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on January 23, 2008, 12:08:44 PM

Bernard and Dave

My mistake I did mean Percival and Vickers not Greener, I know of one PV dog if an accurate measurement is needed, and Dave a Derbyshire Sphinx came up for auction in the USA last year and for unknown reason the right people failed to find it and he buyer only had person bidding against him and bought the sphinx in almost perfect condition for $900.00 dollars, I was sent a few pictures some of which are shown below, so it goes to show you can always be lucky as the item was in a colour catalogue and sold through a well run nationally advertised Auction House

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9113
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9114
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9115

Roy

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 29, 2008, 09:58:31 AM

I'm no longer  :mrgreen:, as he's now living in Cheshire. Thank you both, you know who you are  :hug: :hug:

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Sue C on January 29, 2008, 01:38:53 PM

Hope you got the joke  :D

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Bernard C on February 07, 2008, 07:49:12 AM

Sue et al — There is a colour photograph of another vaseline dog in From Palace to Parlour, cat. no. 175, which looks similar to yours, is on an identical plateau with the gadroons stopping halfway up, but which seems to have a much shorter snout, and is likened to a newfoundland.   Reference is made to a photograph of a similar dog in Lattimore, which is missing from my little library, who describes his as a large collie.

I have a large question mark against the "probably Derbyshire" attribution for this dog in From Palace to Parlour, as "Probably" is rather strong — I would prefer "possibly".   One of only two attributions in the book I have queried;  the other being cat. no. 214, which I would prefer to see as "possibly S&W".

Thompson, p41, notes that the newfoundland dogs are "mostly unmarked".   I wonder what she means.   Had she seen a marked example, her text would have been more positive, so I suspect that she was just told of marked examples.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Frank on February 15, 2008, 06:32:51 PM

Now living-virtually happily in the Glass Zoo too with 8 super images
(http://www.debook.com/animal/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/resized/DERB_dog_001e_CHud_120x120.jpg)

Title: Re: Derbyshire green uranium Dog ?
Post by: Bernard C on October 28, 2014, 12:18:53 PM

(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF1828.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF1828.jpg)          (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF1832.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF1832.jpg)

Click either image to enlarge.

Full set of images on GlassGallery, all with click main image to enlarge feature, via http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-20690

H. 5" 12.5cm, l. 7¼" 18.2cm, w. 4¼" 11cm, weight 1lb 13oz 823g.

I'm now sure that this fine black example and Sue's are both Landseer/Newfoundland Dogs by John Derbyshire.   Their bases match the Derbyshire Greyhound, so this gives us an approximate date for the Landseer/Newfoundland of circa 1874 — certainly mid 1870s.

Note the differences.   The black example has a slightly broader base than Sue's green example, and you can see from my base image (at the top) that the gadrooning under the dog's head mould line has been combined to give a smoother profile, all suggesting that there were initial problems with extracting this piece from the mould, and remedial work on the base of the mould had to be carried out.

Bernard C.  8)