Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne E.B. on January 18, 2008, 12:18:03 PM
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Thought I'd show this large Phoenix heat resistant bowl that I bought yesterday. Couldn't resist it (thought I'd been cured ::) ;D) having read the Pressed Glass chapter of David's book :hiclp: There are some numbers underneath the Phoenix logo, but I can only make out the last three i.e. 530. I think the first two are possibly letters.
Its a great looking bowl - quite contemporary IMHO - and still very useful!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/009.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/010.jpg
;)
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Nice example. I think Phoenix was considered to be the better glass, over Pyrex, and the enamelled ranges really took off in the 1950s.
I found this excellent web site on Phoenix glass some time ago, and have communicated with the site owner:
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/BCMC/phoenix/phoenix01.htm
You will see examples of your range on page 3. The gravy boat shown there is really stunning in yellow :o 8)
My mother still has some of the dessert dishes in a vivid turquoise, with the six-sided rim (example shown at bottom of page).
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Now look what you two have gone and done:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330203742060 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330203742060)
I'd been successfully resisting this for over a week until David posted the link to that article. Now I fear another addiction may have been born...
Oh and I have one of the six-sided bowls too - in the serving size, in a sort of red/ orange colour (possibly raspberry?). Nabbed from the back of my mother's cupboard a few years ago...
This range really is stunning, isn't it? And as you say, Anne, very contemporary-looking.
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Great colour! A real splash of sunshine 8)
Not for the faint-hearted may be, but like you, I love them. Once you've got the bug... ;D
Check out these fruit dishes of mine by Federal Glass Company, Ohio, marked "Heat proof". I've got a set of six in yellow and just two in orange. Not too sure when these date back to or their patt. name, but they look 60s-70s. Used these at Christmas. My visitors remarked on the dishes, but not my cooking ::)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/glass129.jpg
Along with the Phoenix bowl - a riot of colour, just what's needed with this miserable weather. ;)
Oh and I forgot to add, they stack on top of one another - so easy to store.
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I have to say that this Phoenix range knocked Pyrex into a cocked hat. It was always a thorn in the side of Pyrex and after purchasing Orlak, Jobling must have breathed a sigh of relief! >:D
Early Phoenix ware was also supposed to be the superior glass - far clearer - and I think the first enamelling on ovenware was created by them.
Got to agree with you both: it really is a fab range, particularly the citric colours :P
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Nice, Anne - I like.
I'm kind of into Pyrex as well at the moment - having bought a Flameware teapot at Andy MacConnell's shop last year and then a matching saucepan the other week. The tea pot's now on my desk at work and the saucepan in daily use for my morning porridge. Both giving me an immense amount of pleasure - and the saucepan's so much easier to clean than my Le Creuset milk pan.
Now - what other areas of my life could be colonised by glass?????
(And no, that's NOT an opportunity to re-post that link to - ahem - glassware for intimate use. >:D)
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Read the Jobling article about Pyrex in the Glass Study. Starts in this section (http://www.glass-study.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=88&Itemid=7) (subscription needed)
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I was wondering what the football team had to do with this topic ::) but I see what you mean about the tableware.
That's a great photo of those glassblowers!
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At one point it was thought to be the Eisner's father & son, but Adam did not think it was. Neither did the Eisner descendants! Still, they could be another Frank and Eric.
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Impossible to say without comparitive photos, preferably from around 1950-60. Can the families help?
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Neither did the Eisner descendants!
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I meant; can the families help by providing photos for comparison with this one.
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I must admit that is low on my schedule, they did promise to come back to me after sorting the family papers and have not done so yet.
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Well, well, well...
Looks like that sunshine yellow casserole was meant to be - in my kitchen, that is.
I've just discovered a Times article on United Glass (parent company of Sherdley and Ravenhead), dated 1968, which refers to Phoenix ovenware as one of its tableware subsidiaries.
So now I have the perfect excuse to buy lots of lovely Phoenix ware!!! :D
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I thought you knew about United Glass taking over Phoenix? :-\ :-X I don't think it lasted very long though.
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No - I had no idea. :-[
Have just re-read the history site you linked to above and discovered that Phoenix closed in 1970. According to the 1968 Times article, the UG Phoenix subsidiary was making big losses. So I guess it was first for the chop when Distillers took over UG the following year (their primary interest was in the UG container glass operation, which was a major supplier for the Distillers drinks business).
Do you know when UG acquired Phoenix? I can't find any reference to the change of ownership on the Black Country industries site.
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The report I have is dated May 1966. This is when UG made an approach to the British Heat Resisting Glass board, which accepted the offer. I'll send you a photo of the report.
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Thought you might be interested in this 1958 Phoenix advert:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9167
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While I was ploughing through the Times Digital Archive for United Glass info last night, I found a piece which said that UG had sold Phoenix in early 1969. Not 100% clear to whom, but in May 1969, they were reported to be in negotiations with Jobling, owner of Pyrex, Phoenix's main competitor and the dominant player in the British market (80% of market share).
So my guess is that Jobling bought Phoenix and either closed the operation down completely or at least absorbed production into the Pyrex operation and killed off the Phoenix brand.
Will investigate further once I have access to the TDA again (apparently I can get remote access through Westminster Libraries).
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I thought I had the press cutting that reported this, but can't find it. I'll let you know if I do. I had a feeling it was a group that bought it, but not related to Jobling - could be wrong though and thinking of something else.
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:D
I'm posting to say I fairly regularly meet a chap, (I'm afraid I don't know his name - but we always chat when we bump into each other around the local charity shops) who used to work at Phoenix Glassworks.
I was wondering if there are any questions anybody would like me to ask him?
One interesting and obscure snippet of info. he has given me was on the matter of friggers.
A worker had spent a lot of time, making a huge and fabulous model of the ship, "The Bismark", it was put in the annealing oven to cool.
It simply vanished from the oven. Nobody knows who nicked it, or where it ended up, or even if it finished annealing properly.
So, if anybody ever comes across a huge, glass model of "The Bismark", it originated at Phoenix Glassworks. And it's stolen.
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A good source for Phoenix is:
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/BCMC/phoenix/phoenix01.htm
... to which I have contributed a few of my findings. I reckon your friend would enjoy visiting this, Sue!
As for the ship, I reckon this is probably sitting innocently in some former Phoenix worker's home - the company closed its doors c.1967, so its probably been 'inherited' by someone.
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.... or it might have exploded, not being fully annealed!
I'll get a copy of that link printed out and stick it in my handbag for the next time I meet him, thanks David! :-*
He's quite a character.
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He's quite a character.
I imagine he had/has a broad Black Country accent?
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;D
He's got some sort of accent, it's a very pleasant one. Always cheery and chatty, always interested in stuff. He paints for a hobby, and is always on the lookout for nice picture frames.
( we're going to get sent for a nice cappuchino soon!)
I just thought I'd mention him, as he has "inside" info and loves talking about his time there - I think it was happy. Last time I saw him, he mentiond that the glass was NEVER coloured at the Bilston works, that would have been done at the other works. (brain awol atm, sorry, can't remember the name)
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The firms factory was based in Bilston, but I think he means the colouring was enameled? I wasn't aware Phoenix did coloured glass. Can't get onto that web site ATM...
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Yup, enammelling. There's really bright yellow enammleling on some of the cookware.
The name of the other place began with a B too.......
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Yup, enammelling. There's really bright yellow enammleling on some of the cookware.
The name of the other place began with a B too.......
There is some very vivid colours and my mother still has two bowls with a bright turquoise colour. I'll plonk a link on that thread to link them together (mods: worth gluing the two together?)
Other place: a small village called Birmingham, perhaps? :24:
Would be nice to see Sue's friend comment on any Phoenix glass findings.
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No, not B'ham, David, :P .
I know that's not a small village.
The place where the enammeling was put on began with a B, and it wasn't too far away from Bilston, but my working brain cells are far away atm. I'll make a note of it when I next see him.
Having actual questions to put to him, brings stuff that was just daily run-of-the-mill stuff to the forefront of his memory - and makes him realise it *is* stuff worth knowing and talking about, which was why I asked for any specific questions here!
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From the technical point of view, to me the most interesting thing about Phoenix was their use of full electric melting. This is mentioned only casually deep inside one of the links. It is by far the most elegant way of melting glass in a continuous tank furnace and is (or was) widely used in Scandinavia where hydro electricity is relatively cheap. I never understood the economics of using it in the UK and I am reasonably sure that Phoenix were the only firm in this country to do so.
The normal ways of heating tanks by gas or oil have been likened to boiling water by playing a blowlamp on the surface! Electric melting is done by passing a current through the glass itself. On initial start-up of the furnace oil or gas is used to melt the glass until it is hot enough to conduct electricity.
Adam D.
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Saw 4 of those fruit bowls with roses on today for £4 in a charity shop so if any one wants them let me know and I'll get them (not my 'cup-o-tea')
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That should be 6 not 4,
Keith.