Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: josordoni on February 29, 2008, 08:12:19 AM
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I have just bought three large mixed lots of 18th and 19th century drinking glasses - at a sale with a lot of very nice airtwists that were too expensive for me until I know what I am doing, these were the plainer, less desirable ones lotted up together. Altogether I suppose I have around 200 glasses, ales, cordials, wines, etc. lots of different shapes, now I have to work out just what I have got.
I have ordered myself up a copy of Bickerton, do the antique glass people here have any other advice for me, please? I have a gut feeling this may be a large learning curve....
My first filter is that if there is a gadget mark as a pontil then it is 19th century. Would that be right?
And are there any other suggestions for quick and dirty filters I can apply to get them sorted out?
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The book "Dansk glas 1825-1925" <LARSEN, ALFRED & SCHLÜTER, MOGENS & RIISMØLLER, PETER> (even if it is in Danish) covers drinking glasses produced at the various Danish glassworks. Models are 90% identical to those produced in other European countries at the time. As the Danish works were well documented, the time frame for production given in the book is quite accurate.
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Thanks Ivo, is the info easily assimilated by a non-Danish speaker?
I am concerned that what I need is the right terminology, which is why I have the Bickerton on the way. But I have nothing yet (other than general antique books, and Hajdamach) on 19th century, and it is the difference between 18th and 19th I need to swot up on.
It will be interesting though, you guys have always told me the best way to find out about any kind of glass is to get it first, then find out later!
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Hi Lynne,
There is a book called "Investing in Georgian Glass" with some lovely pictures in it, for sale on ebay, (I've forgotton how to do the short links sorry :-[ )
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INVESTING-IN-GEORGIAN-GLASS-Drinking-Vessels-Tableware_W0QQitemZ270179797255QQihZ017QQcategoryZ274QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
I don't know if that is the sort of thing you are looking for.
And there is a nice website which sells that sort of glass with really nice pictures and descriptions which may be useful.
http://www.antique-glass.co.uk/index.htm
Hope that is of some help,
Barbara
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Thank Barbara - I've made a note of that one. The Bickerton I have on order, I believe is the industry standard book, and I've ordered the later updated version of that, so I will have a look first and see if that has the same kind of stuff as this one - can't afford to keep on spending ALL the profits on reference books....I'm sure you know that feeling!!
and yes, that site is brilliant...oh to have these people's knowledge and experience. I know it comes with time but I want it all NOW! ::)
Glad to see you back, btw... :D
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Hi Lynne,
Just glad to be of a little help, and it is so wonderful to be back. It was like having a vital part removed, but hopefully will be popping in on a much more regular basis.
Barbara
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Hi Lynne,
Mark Wests site is good,
http://www.markwest-glass.com/index.html
also Christine Bridge Antiques,
http://www.antiqueglass.co.uk/
and a couple of Millers books are good,
Collecting Glass the facts at your fingertips,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Millers-Collecting-Glass-Fingertips-Collectors/dp/1840001917/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1204286408&sr=11-1
and Millers Glass, antique checklist,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glass-Millers-Antiques-Checklist-Mark/dp/1840002824/ref=pd_sim_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1204286408&sr=11-1
Both using Mark Wests knowledge.
Regards Andy
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Great Andy, both books nice and cheap (did I say I was a cheap skate?? who MOI! :o)
ordered up just like that....
thanks also for Mark West's site. I had that bookmarked ages ago, and couldn't remember his name again to get it onto my new computer, so thank you very very much!!
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The Bickerton book is great but be aware that, as "An "Illustrated Guide", most of it is simply photographs (alebiet very good ones) and basic descriptions of each glass.
A couple of other "classic" books that you might still find are:
- Glass through the ages by E. Barrington Haynes, first publsihed 1948, revised 1959
- The Glass Collector, A Guide to Old English Glass, by Maciver Percival, published in the days when they did not include the publishing year! (I have a second edition, also no publication year)
Although none of the books I mention cover much on the comparisons of "modern" with "old", there are some very useful pointers in each of them to the relevant features of 18th century items. Maybe some of the other books mentioned earlier do give details for comparion between 18th century and later glasses but that is a field that, some years ago, I found difficult to get much detail on. So I stopped trying to understand it.
Copies of old glasses have always been made and, as with many other "old vs copies" items, it is only with much experience that the copies can be more easily identified.
Some time ago (when I was using Tinypic for glass images) I put up a fun quiz photo, although in relation to a genuine query. The image is now on GlassGallery and can be seen here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9251) (clickable for larger version). The question was, "Which of the glasses is a fake?" Sizes (decimalised inches) and weight (grammes) for each are given in the photo to either help or confuse.
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Id say 3rd from left?
Your'e gonna tell me they're all fakes, arent you ;D
Cheers
Andy
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Maciver details http://www.glass-study.com/cms/index.php?option=com_jombib&task=showbib&id=859
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Josordoni
There is a good reference book on old glasses. Lot of photos from 1700 to modern day. Easy to obtain from any big book shops such as Borders, Waterstone. (Miller's Buyer's Guide -Glass) for £20.
Here is a web site you can find some details on 18th c glass.
http://www.georgianglass.com/
When l looking for old glasses first l check is the base. If you find it has a rough pontil mark it means (1. 18thc) (2. Reproduction). For 19thc drinking glass the pontil mark was grounded away.
May be you can include a few of you best glasses photos. Then we might be able to help.
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Hi Ming, thank you for your help, yes, I will show some of them here shortly, and see what the expert view is.
and thank you especially for that site - the articles are fascinating!
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Hi Lynne, this may help too http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/index.asp
But i also have a very old book "Early English Glass" by Daisy Wilmer with lots of information and pictures, dated 1911.
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Wilmer's book and a lot of the early English books are probably mostly too early and only few cover 19th century, if your lot spans 19-20th century. But it is available very cheaply.
Biblio entry:
Wilmer, Daisy (1910), "Early English Glass - A Guide for Collectors of Table and Other Decorative Glass of the 16th, 17th and 18th Centuries": 282 pages 158 b/w.
Abstract:
Description of each item shown. 3rd Edition gives auction prices to 1910 and additional photographs. - Duncan Number: 14805. Editions/printings: 2nd 1911, 3rd edition Bazaar Exchange & Mart 1918 & 1925.
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Well my Bickerton arrived today... flipping heck... what a lot of glasses!!
I may have to ask some questions..... ::)
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I've popped a link to the shop in the Marketplace..
easiest thing for me to do is for me to list them and anyone finds any anomalies then let me know and I'll adjust accordingly.
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The Bickerton book is great but be aware that, as "An "Illustrated Guide", most of it is simply photographs (alebiet very good ones) and basic descriptions of each glass.
A couple of other "classic" books that you might still find are:
- Glass through the ages by E. Barrington Haynes, first publsihed 1948, revised 1959
Hi Lynne
The two books mentioned above by KevH are the only two 'must haves' for an overview on Georgian drinking glasses. I see you have Bickerton; which is a great book to drool over; and though as Kev mentions it is mainly photo's, the bibliography supporting it is immense, you can therefore rely on the dating of each of the glasses illustrated. Make sure you buy the revised edition of Barrington Haynes as BH made mistakes in the first edition and corrected them in the revised edition. Its a very factual book and was the first attempt by any author to categorise all Georgian glasses by stem type and that classification system is still in use today. The Georgian glass collectors 'bible'; but a bit of a dry read! Usefull at bedtime to help you nod off! You can usually pick a copy up on eBay for <£5 delivered. Be wary of any early printed books on the subject; before around the middle of the 20th C; as a lot are very inaccurate. There are however various antiquarian books on the subject that are good that date from the late 19th/early 20th C; but the cost of good copies is prohibitive and you are probably better off buying a good air or opaque twist instead!
Trev.