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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 02:02:12 PM

Title: daum vase
Post by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 02:02:12 PM
Hello

Can anyone out there date this vase by the signature.

Thanks
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Sue C on March 04, 2008, 02:35:58 PM
Hi, and welcome to the board  :girlcheer:  late 20th centuary see here http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/guidepages/marksdtoe.html
scroll down.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 03:29:39 PM
Hello

Thankyou for that info, but do you mean by the late 20th century this is a copy?
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Sue C on March 04, 2008, 03:41:10 PM
Sorry to confuse you, i missed a letter, should have read later  ::)
http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/guidepages/marksdtoe.html
This may also help
http://www.chasenantiques.com/index.php?pid=4&ipid=131
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
Hello

I really am a bit green I think,  what decade of the later 20th century would you say, I brought this for good money and think perhaps I have been done.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2008, 04:06:36 PM
That site is not well researched and in a brief scan I saw quite a few things that must have come from older books. This particular mark was used as early as 1900 according to Hartmann, but your vase could even be in current production and this style of signature which is handpainted might still be used. There are lots of retailers for Daum glass online so you could start there to see if it is current range. It is not cheap glassware so a good modern example found cheaply can be enjoyed as much as one that is one hundred years old. eBay could be a minefield as with such a span of production it is hard to know for sure if what you read is accurate. Any good auction house or dealer in Daum should be able to date this piece.

Prices are from a few hundred to several thousand retail.

Daum website http://www.daum.fr/
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 04:24:37 PM
Hi Frank

The signature as are the leaves are raised from the glass so I guess it has been acid dipped or sand blasted, I did get it from a regular fair dealer so I am sure you can understand my concerns. I need to be sure incase I have to go back to them.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2008, 04:34:05 PM
The sig looks like it is painted with gold enamels, quite normal. Auction houses are the best place to get an opinion on this type as you need a lot of experience to date and authenticate such pieces. Showing to other Daum dealers can be just as good a way of checking. This style of Daum signature is found faked on unmarked cameo, as you only need a relatively low temperature to fuse the enamels this is easily done. So signatures are just a guide. Had the signature been etched on the original blank it would be the same colour as the leaves.

It is sensible to get it checked but do not worry unduly if you bought from a good dealer.

Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2008, 04:36:24 PM
Sandblasting of signatures is usually done with a stencil and is often very superficial, under a glass you can see the pits made by the particles. Acid etched signatures eat into the glass and have a much finer texture than sandblasted which is the norm on modern glassware, say 1970's on but can also be found on much older glass too.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Mosquito on March 04, 2008, 04:55:28 PM
The signature looks to be a cameo signature rather than enamelled, to my eyes at least. Clearer pics would be a help.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: nrl on March 04, 2008, 05:42:22 PM
Hello

I hope this one is better.
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2008, 07:16:55 PM
That is a cameo sig. Much clearer, it looked gold in the tiny pic  :)
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Mike M on March 06, 2008, 11:03:02 AM
Hi

The signature is almost certainly for 1900 to 1920 -it would have had France added if it was any later

However this particular vase has turned up quite a lot lately -alas no photos are going to be able to help check if it's an original or a more modern immitation.

The ones that are 'more modern' have shallower cutting and if you run you hand over the surface they still feel like they have sharp edges -as they are quite new. Either way giving a definitive old or repro decision is very very hard.

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: daum vase
Post by: Frank on March 06, 2008, 12:11:10 PM
Another pointer, according to Chervenka, to copies is that the glass behind the cameo was ground out from inside the vase behind raised parts, whereas the original will be smooth.

I must admit to being puzzled by this but it presumably improves the light transmission.

Other warning pointers of Chervenka are
  • Clear glass body with paper thin flashing.
  • Spattered or mottled body (needs a bright light through the glass to detect)
  • No ground pontil, sheared rim
  • Mark prominent in top half of piece.
  • Concentric rings in the ground pontil of originals. Due to the thickness of outer casings.

    • Chervenka makes no mention of the high quality Japanese examples that were made in the 1960/70's and fooled all the auction house for years but he does say that the Romanian and Czech copies are technically equal to the originals.

    Specifically on Daum, he says they were the only cameo to use multicoloured bodies but is generally so well blended that there are no clear boundaries. The repros have very clearly defined spatter and mottling.
    Title: Re: daum vase
    Post by: Mike M on March 06, 2008, 01:12:25 PM
    Great points Frank

    Except, chervenka seems to have missed that Galle did do a few multicoloured bodies - but to be fair these marbled vases are very distinctive -beautiful orchid one in 'Cappa' if you have that book

    all said, it still doesn't make it easy to be sure   -my rule is with Daum is: if in any doubt leave it.

    One thing I'd love to know is why are the Daum fakes so much harder to spot than say the Galle?

    cheers

    Mike
    Title: Re: daum vase
    Post by: Frank on March 06, 2008, 03:12:53 PM
    Probably because it is less popular out of France and US. Also there is an awful amount of modern, but good, Daum on the second market and that tends to dilute interest I suppose. There are certainly a lot books in French than other languages.