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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Ohio on March 12, 2008, 03:15:43 AM

Title: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
Post by: Ohio on March 12, 2008, 03:15:43 AM
Hi. I am requesting assistance for a lady (this is her picture) from another glass board in the US. Once I saw a post here on a similar piece & I believe it was IDed as British. It's a syrup pitcher with a very ornate top, green glass & the silver is marked 9225 & yes it is 9225 not 925 (I wish it was 925 for her, but it's not) & there are no hallmarks anywhere. I know a positive attribution is pretty much impossible on an item such as this, but am hoping at least a country of origin might be possible & am a bit hopeful that it's England. As always your assistance & expertise is appreciated. Thanks, Ken
Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
Post by: Bernard C on March 12, 2008, 06:28:35 AM
Ken — Thinking along the same lines as yourself, I checked my books and cannot find any reference to a silver fineness of 9225.   Some of these are instantly recognisable, like 925 (Sterling), 833 (Maria Theresa Thalers), and 93055 (Pieces of Eight).   However, I've been unable to find the fineness figures for the silver component of either Old Sheffield Plate or Close Plate.   Logic suggests a slightly lower fineness than Sterling so that such pieces did not inadvertantly get hallmarked, but it would have had to be close to the Sterling fineness so that it did not look too dissimilar in a mixed service.   So 9225 might be the fineness for Old Sheffield Plate or Close Plate.

However, from what I can see of the number in your friend's photograph, it looks to me rather more like an English EPNS pattern number.

Incidentally, I've just finished reading that lovely book Mother Without a Mask by Patricia Holton.   It is interesting that even in the late 1970s, when organising the eldest son's new home, the ladies of the Arab hareem rejected tarnished Sterling silver in favour of nice bright items made by Arab metalbashers from Maria Theresa Thalers (high nickel content).

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
Post by: Bernard C on March 12, 2008, 09:43:04 AM
... and .93055 has been irritating me — and it took me a while to work it out.

  • Sterling silver (.925) is 37 parts pure silver to 3 parts base metal
  • Maria Theresa Thalers (.833) are 5 parts pure silver to 1 part base metal
  • Pieces of Eight aka Spanish Dollars (.93055) are 67 parts pure silver to 5 parts base metal
  • and, for completeness, Britannia silver (.9584 or .958) is 23 parts pure silver to 1 part base metal

    • Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: Bernard C on March 12, 2008, 11:36:53 AM
    ... and, have you noticed?   All eight of those integers are prime numbers.   Now that's odd ...

    ... and if you add them all together, and add the components of the outcome, you end up with a different prime number.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: Ohio on March 12, 2008, 09:44:05 PM
    Thanks Bernard, your information much appreciated by the lady. Ken
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: Bernard C on March 12, 2008, 11:18:52 PM
    Ken — Thanks, and apologies for rambling way off topic.   I should be more disciplined.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: krsilber on March 13, 2008, 12:39:41 AM
    Bernard, I think that's a cool ramble! I like the way you think. 

    Over half of them are also Fibonacci numbers.

    Seems like I heard some of these kinda things were made in Italy.
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: Sue C on March 13, 2008, 08:12:59 AM
    I know these are not syrup jugs but it still may be useful http://www.karaffensammler.at/gallery/main.php?g2_page=4
    Title: Re: Syrup, Ornate Silver Top, British?
    Post by: Ohio on March 13, 2008, 05:52:46 PM
    Sue thank you for the link. I am certain it will be very helpful. Ken