Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: deco.queen on March 20, 2008, 03:00:06 PM
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I have been searching for my unknown pieces and I think maybe this one is the Argos pattern. Could it be?
It has the rings on the bottom and the darts on the sides. Nice silveroverlay on this piece.
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I was thinking this looked like the argos design by Schrotter that I found.
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Hi,
I'm sorry I have no record of such an item being part of the Argos range, as made by Inwald, and designed, as you rightly say, by Rudolf Schrotter.
Probably a similar item from another manufacturer, but again, I have nothing in my data-base for a Czech company.
Regards,
Marcus
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I am accumulating a long list of items which seem to be Argos, but do NOT appear in the documentation I have been able to access.
It's very easy to imagine that the pattern was copied by another factory. But I'd still like to try some detailed documentation by collecting and swapping information, i.e. a list of items which match Argos but not necessarily made by Sklo.
Here's my latest finds! :)
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Jay,
Argos 2 is right, and Inwald, can't find Argos 1 or Argos 3, in the database....
Two problems I have with Janice's item are the handles... stylistically not right, and the repeated pattern.
Regards,
Marcus
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Yes, I understand Marcus,
It does seem unlikely in isolation, the repeat pattern, but I think we have to consider that it was to hold a milk and sugar as shown below. The single circle design would then have looked rather odd! I enclose an image which includes (correct?!) the milk and sugar.
Argos 1 of my images would appear to be the underside of the butter dish. Not sure whether the ring motief was on the lid as well! (When will I find one!!!!??)
Argos 3 of mine DOES have the correct handle style so seems to be 'valid'?! (albeit uncatalogued)
(In one of my dreams I remember seeing a square version of this tray! )
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Sorry I didn't add the measurements to mine! It is 12 5/8" end to end, 6 1/2" wide, and 1 1/4" deep it is divided into 3 sections so it's a relish tray.
Thanks,
Janice
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I'm going to add this picture to the discussion.
A long tray clearly showing three repeats of the circle in order to accomodate the three items on the tray.
Sorry for being difficult Marcus, but do we really think that this is a TOTALLY different pattern? or are we talking 'later additions' to the catalogue listed items?
Amongst this weekend's treasure, three more Argos items including a divided oblong dish in fumi just like the basic form of the one shown at the beginning of this thread. Its handles seem to match the tray shown here?!
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OK Jay,
your evidence is pretty convincing.....
The database obviously is not complete or infallible, but I do not do assumptions. Pedant I may be, but unless paper supports our assumptions, then rather than identification, we are guessing.....
Regards,
M
PS your set with one-handled cups follows what appears to be a catalogue habit, where one-handled bowls go with two-handled compotes... therefore almost certainly right....
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Rummaging through a junk shop in Bern last week, I found a flint divided plate (like the Argos 5 pic) no handle, but with the right feel... plus a bunch of lookalike Argos plates and bowls - not quite as heavy as expected - all stamped "FRANCE" in very small letters.
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Hi,
In the case of the Argos pattern numbers I am drawing from 1940s(VBG) and 1950s (Sklarny Inwald) catalogues.
Regards,
Marcus
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Deco queen's tray doesn't have the ribs that the other Argos items apparently have.
Is there much silver deposit in that style over there? I've seen Italian glass with very thin silver decoration, and some supposedly Bohemian glass with it, but don't know how widespread it is otherwise.
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So here's the version of it that I just acquired.
I have to say it certainly ISN'T light, in fact it's so heavy that I would have guessed Sklo even in the dark! LOL! (They never seemed to choose 'delicate' over 'robust' there, did they?! ;-)
I can't see any notable difference from the rest of my verified items. (weight, colour, pattern, relief etc. all seems right!)
In the third picture is a small plate ('bonbon plate'?) in light green. Although this has the Argos pattern, it IS noticably (surprisingly) thinner though still not 'delicate'.
I searched for any marks, just to be doubly sure, but find nothing!
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Deco queen's tray doesn't have the ribs that the other Argos items apparently have.
YES, it does Kristi. It's very hard to get them to show up with all that silver on there, in my first post I mentioned the darts on the sides. It is exactly like the one Jay is showing except his is divided into four parts.
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Marcus,
Can we try some reverse logic? For the Dutch market (at least) a milk and sugar set (with spoon vase) Needs to be on a (matching tray). No retailer here could have shifted them without a tray!
Is there another pattern for the tray suggested in the catalogues?
Leerdam (my own 'local' factory) was often pushed into designs off-catalogue by the demands of foreign buyers! For example although Dutch people put their ice coupes onto a separate saucer, the US 'demanded' that the saucer be molded onto the coupe to form a single piece.
(The export version of the design never appeared in (local) catalogues.)
Could this be the right TYPE of explanation?
Is there a possibility that production of the pattern was moved to another factory during reorganisation? Perhaps to a factory that did not produce a (surviving) catalogue?
Can we use colour as a partial clue? The light green plate above is lighter in weight. It's also a colour that I wouldn't expect from Sklo, and don't have any evidence of genuine Argos designs in this colour?
(Does 'Flint' refer to the Whitefriars tint?)
If this was a design that was emulated in France as the evidence cited suggests, then it would be nice to have the opinion of anyone in France who could comment on the availability of this pattern there.
(I'm equally fascinated by the factories who stole designs from each other, so intrigued to find signs of 'wrongdoing' even if we are still a long way from proving it in court)
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I just wanted to show that this piece has the "darts" on the outside, boy was it hard to get them to show up!
(The bottom is like the Czech vase I have.)
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Whoops! Duh. Read much, Kristi?
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http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/index18.html (http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/index18.html)
Is this your site Jay? There is a relish on this page in smoke color just like yours and it says Argos. I'm still thinking mine is Argos. I know Marcus, we need proof. :-[
Regards,
Janice
(By the way, my relish is very heavy also.)
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Yes, that's my site (although Argos is strictly speaking outside its scope)! :)
I have a few more items on the way already and will post pics of anything interesting!
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I have had a wonderful time going through every page of your site and almost 100% of your links. Really great information and pictures. Thank you!
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Thanks :)
It takes a lot of time and it's always nice to know if anyone reads the stuff!
I'd break the rule and start an Argos page, but I think Marcus has all the starting points assembled, so we'd better just wait for publication and see what it reveals!
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Argos 1 of my images would appear to be the underside of the butter dish. Not sure whether the ring motief was on the lid as well! (When will I find one!!!!??)
Here it is (if you didnt find it)
Also a pink cheese bell.
Is your list available somewhere?
Started to collect this pattern a year ago in Norway.