Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Wuff on March 22, 2008, 07:49:52 AM
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Recently the following - not identified - paperweight was offered on ebay (pictures reproduced with the seller's permission):
(http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserA150.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserA.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserB150.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserB.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserC150.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/MosserC.jpg) (click on images)
It looks to me like the picture paperweights made by Thomas R. Mosser, the founder of Mosser Glass, from the mid 70's to the early 90's: slightly irregular "frosted" base, double frit layer, white glass with the image - and an "M" as identification (arrow). I informed the seller - and a correspondence arose from this. Main point: there doesn't seem to be an "M" but just two "metall bubbles".
This is where you experts come in. I assume the image was created by some sort of transfer printing - correct? What would be the exact procedure, and what would be the dye? Could the dye contain some metal oxide - which came off to form the bubbles - and nothing (or only very little) left to form the "M" as intended?
Or are there other suggestions for a maker of this paperweight?
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I imagine it is an enamel transfer, which was placed onto the white ground? One of these things that really need examining close-up, Wolf.
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Thank you, David! In an article (http://www.encresdubuit.net/langues/fr/fichiers/presse/comm/article_verre.pdf) on Glass Decoration by Guy Massé I find the following
Inorganic inks
Enamels High Temperature
- Frit-ink (enamel) direct decoration: applied ceramic labeling (ACL)
Frit inks comprise of ground glass or ceramic plus organic or inorganic pigments. They are very durable. When properly fired, they are as long-lasting as the glass or ceramic substrate on which they are fired. Some of the drawbacks to decoration with frit inks are considerable energy consumption, slow throughput times, and difficulties in matching colours, amongst others. Frit inks can be based in oil, hot-melt wax, or UV-curable carriers.
- Frit-ink (enamel) transfer applications («chromos»)
In this process, frit inks are printed onto water-slide or heat-release transfer paper and then transferred to the substrate and subsequently fired. Where the contour of the substrate prohibits direct decorating, this process is used. To transfer multicolour prints intact, a final cover coat needs to be applied on the image. The cover coat is usually solvent based, even though the actual inks can be oil based, wax based or UV-carrier based.
The article is mainly about decorating glass on the outside (like drinking glasses) - would the same also apply as an intermediate step for paperweights - and is it what you meant?
What would a lay person have to look for to help decide this question? The weight has been sold in the meantime - but possibly we can get the winning bidder involved.
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The article is mainly about decorating glass on the outside (like drinking glasses) - would the same also apply as an intermediate step for paperweights - and is it what you meant?
What would a lay person have to look for to help decide this question? The weight has been sold in the meantime - but possibly we can get the winning bidder involved.
Yes, I suppose the same principle applies - the transfer was fixed to the ground and the paperweight was then completed. Difficult to know how to tell it is a transfer when it is encased, but a slight raising of the edges might be evident if viewed carefully.
Frank or Ivo might be able to expand on this a little further.
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Just guessing but you could not print it on as an intermediate stage as the glass would need to cool first and then be reheated to finish. More likely it was printed onto the white material, could be plaster or glass and this introduced into the weight making as with any sulphide. Look at the various sequences of paperweight making shown in Reflections on Scotland's glass and note how the weights are made from top to bottom, in general... with some pre-stages.
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Hi all
I recently acquired a paperweight with the "M" signature at the base of a picture. It has the same double frit base as Wuffs although my slightly uneven base is polished. See attachment
My research led me to Variety Glass of Ohio and Tom Mosser. According to Melvins " American Glass paperweights and their makers" the plaques - presumably ceramic - were hand painted by a Ray Bichard of Cambridge before the glass maker encased the plaque. Ray also made plaques for the Degenharts - these have a "D" signature.
However this leaves me with a problem - hand painted?? looking closely at mine it clearly is NOT hand painted - the surface under close inspection resembles a picture in a newspaper made up of dots.
I am inclined to think that these are Mosser weights and that the description in the book is at fault - maybe Bichard hand painted master pictures that were then transferred to the plaques using some sort of process from the printing industry.
Incidently Mosser glass is still runnning - www.mosserglass.com
Best regards
Derek
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They could printed in black and white and then hand coloured, this would be virtually undetectable embedded in glass.
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Incidently Mosser glass is still running - www.mosserglass.com
Yes - I know they are still in business: I got the information about the maker and the time frame from them - but they were rather reluctant to provide any further information ;).
Just guessing but you could not print it on as an intermediate stage as the glass would need to cool first and then be reheated to finish.
It would obviously not be printed on the molten glass - but whenever the printing/painting took place on whatever material, it would still be an intermediate step, i.e. one single step of the entire procedure between getting all the material ready and the finished product ;).
But ... the above comments just bring me to two questions even more basic:
What is the white material?
So far I have always assumed it would be glass - but ceramic ("sulphide material") might be an alternative. What about Murano weights with images on a white ground, or Chinese Whites? Glass or ceramic?
Hand painted or printed?
Recently Nadine offered a Murano weight on ebay (300201474836 (http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300201474836) - look quickly as long as the images are still online) which looked hand painted to me, and was also described as such. But with more complicated images - like this Whitefriars flower bouquet (http://www.paperweight-mall.com/picture.html) - I always assumed the images were printed, and for anything after 1960 I would certainly assume colour printed, not b/w and hand coloured. BTW - in the description of this weight it actually states "made by transfer printing onto a cooled white disk of glass".
So now this really gets interesting - thank you to all contributing to this therad!
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Transfer printing is the process of transferring the image to the item. The preparation of the transfer itself can be by any process including hand painting - depending on how many you want to produce: Lithography (various) for large volumes, Silk-Screen for short runs, Lino-cut, hand etc.
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One of the speakers at Paperwegiht Fest 2008 (May 14-17, 2008 in Wheaton Village) will be speaking on this topic. The fellow's name is Tony Glander, and If you google his name you can find books and CD's that he has on the process.
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Hi all
Re the process to transfer the picture onto the substrate - glass or ceramic. Looking at my weight again the surface onto which the picture is printed is far from flat. I know very little about printing but I would have thought for processes like silk screen etc an absolutely flat surface was essential in order to get a complete transfer.
BTW the disk in my weight is set just below the maximum diameter of the weight - the diameter of the weight is 90 mm and I estimate the disk at 85mm - it is only a very thin layer of glass around the edges of the disk.
Frank commented that "They could printed in black and white and then hand coloured, this would be virtually undetectable embedded in glass."
If you enlarge the image I sent particularly on the deers body you can see the dots from printing - so at least in the case of my weight it is DEFINITELY not hand coloured.
Best regards
Derek
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Frank commented that "They could printed in black and white and then hand coloured, this would be virtually undetectable embedded in glass."
If you enlarge the image I sent particularly on the deers body you can see the dots from printing - so at least in the case of my weight it is DEFINITELY not hand coloured.
The dots still show if it is hand-coloured, it was quite a common way of doing the colouring. The surface does not need to be flat to print on it.
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The process of transfer printing is (mainly) used for non-flat surfaces, if I understand the description by Guy Massé (my quote above) correctly: the first printing stage is onto some substrate (like paper) - and then the image is "transferred" like a decal.
Yes - Frank - if a b/w print is handcoloured, the dots from the printing will remain - BUT ... I'm sure, if someone during the mid 1970ies (Mosser paperweights) would print something, which should be coloured in the end, he would do a colour print, not b/w and colour it by hand afterwards (unless the aim was to imitate an old procedure for some reason). At least in Germany/Switzerland the last handcoloured postcards were produced during the first few years after WWII.
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The transfer print was soaked in water and it could then be slid onto the glass/ceramic surface. Colour transfers were really in vogue from the 1950s (although were being made in the 1930s) so I would imagine this paperweight used a colour transfer unless, as Wolf states, they were trying to emulate an early process. I imagine hand-colouring (in a general sense) would have overlapped up to about 1950?
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David has got it right,Whitefriars made some shortly before they closed, the transfers came from Johnson Matthey and were made for tiles and other ceramics
I believe they also did items for the royal mint the transfers were heat resitant the blower would make a small opaque white glass button that was allowed to cool down the self adhesive transfer would be slid on and then picked up with a blob of clear glass and then reheated.JP. INFO Courtesy of Ray Annenberg.
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Let me come back to my questions starting this thread. I have been in contact with the buyer of the item, and he tells me that
1. The M is there - just somewhat obscured by two of a fair number of small bubbles: none of the printing ink had to come off to form the bubbles.
2. The dots from the printing procedure are clearly visible upon close inspection.
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I have quite a few of these weights. With a loupe, I can see what looks like threads from fabric, extremely fine cross hatching. Thoughts?
Mosser ppw's are one of my favorite types. They may not be as "elegant" as some, but I find the artwork delightful.
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Have you got some photos MsMouse? It might be the same transfer process was used to create this, or possibly silk-screening?
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Hi David
Attached are closeups of two areas of my Mosser deer weight - photo earlier in the string.
Deer 1 was taken at the centre of the weight.
Deer 2 taken at the edge
Best regards
Derek
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I am at a bit of a loss re: photos, as I have to learn to use a compression program, so that images will be small enough to upload. That is on the to-do list! After I return from vacation. And learn, I will, as I have a few more "mystery" weights about which I'd love comments.
In Derek's second photo, I believe I see the cross hatching to which I referred. The one I have handy is The Last Supper, and the lines seem somewhat finer.
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Thansk for these Derek - I can see the original process was transfer-printed. We still can't determine for sure whether it was then hand-coloured, as Frank suggested, or whether the transfer was coloured to begin with.
MS Mouse: if you go to the Board Announcements (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/board,22.0.html) there are various topics to assist with placing photos. Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com) (a free utility) can be used to resize photos.
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Those are not threads, just the pattern formed by the screen. Try looking at any colour printing in a book. With multicoloured printing there is a screen for each colour usually 4 colours but some expensive processes use more. Each screen is arranged on a grid and the angles of the grid are carefully selected to avoid a moiré effects and to limit the number of dots from each screen overlaying each others. Most modern 4 colour print when magnified appears to be arranged in circles. Other systems use transparent or blending inks and the dots are less obvious. With Silk Screen the dots appear to be more randomly distributed due to the differences in registration - Fashion Designer scarves can be created with over 20 screens, murderously difficult to get good results. Spot colour printing will use a screen that is too fine to be seen but sufficent to stop the ink spreading, it appears to be solid colour. The finest art printing is done in a waterless process using screen of 2,540 dots per inch, this gives near to photographic results.
Ink jet printing and electrostatic printing are changing all that, inkjets can use as many colours as can be needed and for glass printing use use UV curing inks that create a near permanent result with heat. This method will replace lithographic printing on glass in the near future. Apart from a massive reduction in energy costs, it has the advantage that short runs are feasible and every impression can be different. It can of course be used for printing UV cured transfers too. Electrostatic printing uses low-heat curing plastic inks and its only application in glass that I know of is for large volume containers as an alternative to litho printing - I don't think it is very common..
There were a lot of transfer printers but some companies bought their own presses to save costs. The inks are finely crushed glass and a carrier printed on transfer paper, heat fuses this into the glass. Transfers could also be painted by hand.