Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: wesley on March 24, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
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Hello,
I bought an unusual piece recently. Eliptic in shape it measures 11 inches in length and has a kind of connected solid island in the middle.
Heavy in weight but is unsigned.
Has anyone got any ideas of a maker/designer?
Thank you in advance,
Wes
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I like it!
I have a hunch it could be more Bohemian/Czech :huh:
Maybe it should go in general glass forum for others views!
Cheers
Andy 8)
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Wesley,
i should have asked , whats the base like?
Im presuming its flat, polished and no pontil? If thers more to it, could you add another photo :D
Cheers
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Yes the base is flat polished with no pontil and has light scratching. I have attached a photo of it.
I also bought another matching in piece at the same time in the lot (matching in colour and casing) which does have a ground pontil and is signed, but it is so worn is unrecognisable (or it is to an amateur me!). It is signed just above the pontil, like I would expect with Scandinavian glass hence my initial reference to the title of this post.
Kind regards,
Wes
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Hi Wesley,
thinking about your piece, i keep thinking Exbor, a Czech studio, and was googling exbor,
and found this!
http://www.circa5060.ca/index2.php?id=artglasslines
Coincidence ;D
Trouble is, i cant get anywhere on the website, nothing works >:(
I think its close though,
Marcus, are you there? do you think this is Bohemian??
cheers
Andy
8)
Its a strange website! Your vase IS on there, but i cant get the right link! and i keep losing it :hb1:
keep clicking around on the links!
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Hi Andy,
You are right, it is there. :hiclp:
I see what you mean by having to click around the site to find it.
I guess I will have to make some room so that I can extend my collection out sideways to add some more examples ;D
Thank you
Wes
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Hi Andy,
The link you gave worked, but I could not see how the piece was identified as Exbor? Did I miss something? Like every other aspect of that site, nothing seems to work.
Wesley, please try to use talcum powder on the signature, you might lift the lettering to see sufficiently.
Regards,
Marcus
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Hi Marcus and Wesley,
sorry for confusion, i was going to add to Wes, that although it looked like the same piece
of glass, i could find nothing to confirm it is Exbor, it just happened to 'pop' up, and as the web site
doesnt appear to work, nothing to click on!
It just made me think of Bohemian, and maybe Exbor, but no definite confirmation,
Marcus, i presume you think a good chance of Bohemian? Any other possible candidates?
Regards Andy
8)
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Hi Andy,
I'm not inclined to Czechoslovakia, but a signature would help to reveal all.
I'd also be less than confident that this could be by Exbor.
Scandinavia remains a good candidate.
Regards,
Marcus
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Hi Andy & Marcus,
I am not doing too well with the talc. I have attached my best effor so far but I will have another attemp at the weekend and use a tripod and natural light.
Maybe I can contact the website owner from your the link you directed me too and ask if their piece is marked?
Best wishes,
Wes
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Although I cant really make it out from the photo I think the small red one might be a Sven Palmqvist piece for Orrefors (if so the sig' might read something like the ORREFORS PU 1234/5 example below). Not sure it has anything to do with the large one though?
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Martyn,
i was staring at it today, and was just about to post that i thought it may be Orrefors :D
or maybe Johanasfors glasbruk. Certainly looks Scandinavian , but it doesnt look like the same
as the large one though :-\
Andy
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Hello,
I think you are right, even though they came from the same house auction, thay are from different countries.
I contacted the owner of they http://www.circa5060.ca/index2.php?id=artglasslines site who is a top guy :clap: from Canada called Brian and in passing mentioned the larger piece like mine which he has on his site. In his email reply, he said that to the best of his researching it is attributed to Hlava.
I also asked him about any other pieces of Czech glass that he might have for sale, as I would now like to build a small collection of it. He has sent me some of the most amazing pictures of some pieces he has for sale and of his shop. I know what I am saving up for now ;D . WOW!
Best wishes,
Wes
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Hi Wes,
I think this was designed by Oldrich Lipá, making it Czech, but I don't have a date or factory for it yet, though it's probably mid-1960s. When I come across it next, I'll let you know. Alternatively, researching using his name may reveal more.
Hope this helps,
Mark
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Hi Mark,
I really would be very wary with this one.....
Lipa's work is usually ignored,and almost always attributed to Hlava, and rarely well-documented.......
Were it a Lipa piece, then I would expect either a Moser mark, given that he designed in-house for them, or an Exbor Studio's mark to the base.
Lipa was not known to have been involved in the re-training programme for Mstisov workers, when they were moved to Karlovy Vary.
This programme led, as I am sure Mark will know, to many items, to designs by Zemek, being made by Moser, usually with paper labels, rather than acid etched marks.
Regards,
Marcus
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That wear looks highly suspicious, it should only be on the flat part and that clearly goes around corners. Easily done with emery on the lap and was a common practise by the unscrupulous in my dealing days - if you asked them what they were doing... "Trying to polish the scratches off", my retort "Try a finer emery!"
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Now this is getting confusing.... Please can we be absolutely sure which base image we are referring to. The first has little wear, and NO signature, the second is similar, worn (very) and possibly signed.
Regards,
Marcus
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If the second bowl is Orrefors, the centre of the base is likely indented (ground out pontil) and the signature (and wear) is around the outer edge.
I think the image here is scanned rather than a photo, which flattens out the relief. So it could well be the same, therefore not suspicious.
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The first two base images of Wesley. Agreed that is hard to tell from the pics but in those it looks odd to me.
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Hi,
Without complicating things further, please see the following image:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9815
Shortly after posting my first message, I contacted my colleague Graham Cooley, who I have been working with on the forthcoming Hi Sklo Lo Sklo exhibition of Graham's glass, and the accompanying catalogue.
Over the past few years we've been amassing information which now includes copies of every page in CGR (Czechoslovak Glass Review) showing a piece of glass. Of course, I do realise that the periodical is not always 100% reliable as regards attributions, but I think this one is okay. I am sorry that I don't have a date right now for this page, but as I say, when I am less busy and books have gone to bed I will rectify this.
I hope this helps,
Mark
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I should also say many thanks to Graham for forwarding this scan on to me and validating my memory!
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I am not certain but suspect that image is copyright and educational uses expressly forbids public posting. In any case its full source should be stated.
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Hello Frank,
Please delete it then as Moderator.
If you can't and are sure that it falls under copyright which expressly forbids it from being posted online, then I will. Note that I have credited it as 'Scan from Czechoslovak Glass Review'.
Graham and I have been photocopying CGR under the guidance of, and with the permission of, the librarians at the V&A and British Library, although I understand that this is allowed only for private use, rather than for later publishing. I'm not using any of these images in my catalogue.
All I was trying to do was let Wes know what he had.
So Wes, if you haven't already, have a quick look before it vanishes!
Apologies if any copyright problems have been caused, none were intended.
Mark
(In this instance, if this is the case, the copyright note below as regards images does not apply!)
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Hi Mark, Frank's not able to delete as he's not currently a moderator (I think we wore him out so he's taking time off! ;)) but Cathy B, Max, Javier, Marcus or I can amend images and posts for you.
The difference in using the images on the board or the gallery is that this is classed as publishing as we are a public forum and gallery so we fall outside the private use and educational guidelines. Copyright material can be posted onto the board or the gallery only if the permission of the copyright holder is obtained and quoted in the post, and a full citation/credit given.
Hope this helps.
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Hi Anne,
Thanks for the swift reply. Sorry, I didn't realise that Frank wasn't a Moderator, thus was unable to do that.
It has now been deleted (sighs of relief all around).
Wesley, please contact me should you wish to see it as it does confirm that the design was by Lípa. I presume that I am able to send a scan or photocopy of a photocopy to him as this is on a private basis.
Thanks,
Mark
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Hi Mark what is done privately between consenting adults does not impact the board or gallery. ;)
Thanks for deleting the pic from the gallery.
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no probs Anne!
Blimey, you stay awake late looking at this too!
Best,
Mark
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Hi Anne,
There are scans from the same publication in a gallery called 'lecasson'. What's the difference?
Graham
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Hi i viewed the auction and had a good look at that piece it was extremely heavy and i could see no wear at all and a friend who was a gaffer and worked in glass thirty years felt the same so we didnt bid.mind you niether of us has perfect eyesight.
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Hi Anne,
There are scans from the same publication in a gallery called 'lecasson'. What's the difference?
Graham
I see adverts which are out of copyright, by convention unless a photographer is mentioned under an image, and in another case I see the annotation "Image copyright Glass Review fom 30 1975-8 p23, and used in compliance with copyright terms." Photos ascribed to a particular photographer are subject to photographic copyright of the individual and not the publisher.
Czech copyright law is relevant to CGR and respected internationally under the Berne convention. UK copyright law does not apply. Consent to use CGR editorial needs to be cleared with the Czech publishers as they still exist there are no difficulties other than language in talking to them. An explicit message about copyright appears in each issue.
Changes to International copyright law in the last ten years do not over-ride the copyright in force at the time of publication, in many but not all cases. It is the responsibility of a publisher to ensure that copyright is complied with or us poor researchers will be the victims. On a public board the publisher is the poster and to a lesser extent the owner of the facility has a responsibility that can be demonstrated by how their terms and conditions but also by them removing material that is not clear in how copyright permission is addressed.
The detail is complex and none of the above should be construed as more than my opinion based on my legal counsellors advice.
So quite a big difference.
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I have actively sought permission to use images from CGR, from the publishers of CGR/Glass Review, and have several scans on my web-site, fully acknowledged, with permission from the editors. The images I posted cannot be copied, without other people seeking copyright permissions from the Czech Republic.
Regards,
Marcus Newhall
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Marcus, thanks for publicly clarifying the position re CGR which I know you have previously told me privately, it's useful to have that on record.
Graham, just to clarify further, lecasson on the GlassGallery is sklounion on the GMB (i.e. both id's are Marcus). Whilst the GMB is hosted by Angela Bowey, the GlassGallery itself is hosted by me here in the UK, and whilst it was set up to provide a dedicated service only for GMB users it is ultimately subject to the rules of usage of my web hosting service in which copyright matters are enforced, and as soon as any item which breaches copyright is brought to my attention the user is asked to remove it or I will do so. GlassGallery states in many places "Please ensure pictures are copyright free, copyleft, or that permission has been sought if you are not the copyright owner."