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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: KevinH on March 25, 2008, 12:11:01 AM

Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: KevinH on March 25, 2008, 12:11:01 AM
Quote from: Frank on March 24, 2008, 11:32:58 AM
Allan Port has a boxed set including one and they turn up on eBay every few years.

http://www.paperweights.com/scottish.htm

So far, I don't think I have seen one of these jiggers / spirit measures sold as a separate item, but that does not mean they are not to be found that way. Other bar set items do appear individually, with the corkscrews and bottle openers being most regular.

I only know of perhaps half a dozen of the boxed sets and that last one (sold recently via eBay) may have been missing the jigger!

When I bid for (and won) a complete boxed set a couple of years ago, it was made known to me that these attract the interest of collectors of bar items, and that a paperweight handle would be seen as simply a decorative touch, rather than a piece of the paperweight history connected with the Ysart family. So, it's worth keeping an eye on the eBay catgeories covering bar tools etc., as well as paperweights.
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: DuaneClayton on March 25, 2008, 01:10:13 AM
I recently bought a set minus the spirit measure that was in a brass finish. this box does not seem to be made for the measure, but I may have them put in the box wrong. the web page that was offered here show them all in the box so I am going to rearrange mine to see if it fits in the box like the picture from paperweights web site.

I have found and bought a number of these items in singles. only in the silver/chrome finish.

So till looking and collecting.

thanks for your help.
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: KevinH on March 25, 2008, 03:36:35 AM
I just checked and ... my comment: "I only know of perhaps half a dozen of the boxed sets and that last one (sold recently via eBay) may have been missing the jigger!" ... refers to the set that you bought. I was the underbidder. It was my request for info on the possible missing piece and the box lid that the seller added to the listing.

The set I already have is the same as in Allan Port's site in that the pieces are the same and are laid out in the same way (except my bottle opener is on the left and can opener is on the right) in a same-sized box. One of the other sets I have seen and handled is also identical in those respects. Your possibly partial set has a larger box to accommodate four items in depth, rather than three, but the width would seem to be the same judging by the length of the spoon.

In my set, the other one I have handled, and in Allan's, the positions of the pieces are set precisely by the cut-outs of the wooden (I assume) base section. It is not possible to place the items in any postion other than that which has been designed for them. In your set, from the seller's images I could not really tell what shape the indents were and what tools they were supposed to hold. But there were certainly at least two indents that were not used for any of the tools shown in the box. Hence my query about it - and also why I was particularly interested in that set, as I tend these days to buy "oddities" that need some thought rather than just clear-cut examples of known items. :)
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: Frank on March 25, 2008, 09:19:12 AM
They were also sold in other sized sets than that shown. I would appreciate pictures of the, seemingly rare, brass finish items for Scotland's Glass please. (Email using envelope on left of thes post)
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: DuaneClayton on March 25, 2008, 11:42:34 AM
KevH
When I recieved this set it was wrapped all seperatly out of the box so I am not really sure if I re-placed them back in the box correctly. I travel for my work so when I get home I will compair the picture to my box and see if there is a blank spot for something else.

I really appreicate your imput. haha I did wonder eailer if you had bid on this set, now the wondering is solved.

I to have choosen to do the oddities in the paperweight items. My Sweety collects round paperweights and we continue to collect those but my collection is more in these types items.

Duane
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: DuaneClayton on March 25, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
Frank A

After I compair placement of these items in the box I will take a picture of it and send to you.

Duane
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: DuaneClayton on March 25, 2008, 11:56:08 AM
Kev H

After rereading my post I have to say this....... it seemed to me that the way I put my words down was that I was laughing at you for being the second bidder. NOT the case. It was just one of those thoughts that had popped in to my head when I read it, and the funny part was that I had not totally figured that out previously.

Sorry if it offended.
Duane
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: KevinH on March 25, 2008, 02:07:31 PM
No offence taken. Unless it is clear that somebody really is being offensive, then I read "haha" or "LOL" or a "grinning smiley" as simply an internet way for somebody to show they are relaxed. :) ;D

And Frank is right, of course, that there were other size boxes - in the Ysart Glass book there is a pic of a three-piece set, and it was in what looks like a simple cardboard box, rather than the hinged-box of the larger sets.
Title: Paperweight handle jiggers
Post by: Frank on March 25, 2008, 05:00:28 PM
At the time of Blackpool (Trade exhibition) Pirelli announced only four items in this range, so larger sets must have been issued at a later date.

Announced at Blackpool were:
  • Bottle Opener
  • Plain corkscrew (also available as a boxed pair)
  • Can-piercer
  • Auto Corkscrew
    • On my Ysart Glass page these are respectively F006, F009, F005 and F007 (brass) F008 (plated)

    When I move that page to Scotland's Glass I will correct the names. Allan and I will need to share our data too, his research was via Lassmann and it appears these were assembled by them and not at Vasart.

    This thread really needs to be moved to Glass, perhaps just adding a separate WANT ad in the marketplace?
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Frank on March 26, 2008, 09:21:14 AM
    While the weights are Scottish these are essentially an English product.
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Anne on March 26, 2008, 05:39:26 PM
    So if the weights are Scottish they belong in Scottish Glass. :)
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Frank on March 26, 2008, 07:14:23 PM
    Except when they are marked it is "Made in England", the weights being outsourced to another country.

    I expect labelled ones would have Pirelli Made in England.
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Anne on March 26, 2008, 07:31:45 PM
    In which case Paperweights might be a better location Frank, as English and Scottish are separate forums?
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: KevinH on March 26, 2008, 08:28:31 PM
     ;D I knew this would happen.

    From the perspective of the glass bits, these are normally referred to by paperweight collectors as "related objects" but because they have actual papweights stuck on them, they are in fact much more closely related than other things, like glass walking sticks with coloured twists and are sometimes collected by paperweight folk!

    Whether these are deemed Scottish or English is an interesting point in itself. As the complete items were, apparently, assembled in England they could be rightly be called English with Scottish bits. But which company - or companies - actually sold them? If Vasart Ltd sold them, could they then be Scotish with English bits? Or if Pirelli sold them, would they have been labelled with "Pirelli made in England" or, like lots of the later period Vasart weights, "Pirelli Glass Hand Made in Scotland"? And would the wording of the label really change the fact that these are composite items produced from work out of two different countries? And are we actually sure that none of these items were assembled at the Vasart works?

    If this was a "bar bits board", I wonder what the "bar bits collectors" would say about the country of origin?

    Personally, I think this message belongs more safely in the Paperweights forum, which would mean we don't have to worry too much about the country of origin of these fascinatng items.

     :) ;) :D ;D
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Frank on March 26, 2008, 09:13:35 PM
    seconded
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: DuaneClayton on March 28, 2008, 12:06:34 AM
    I just wish it would stay in  one place so I can find it.
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Lustrousstone on March 28, 2008, 07:26:17 AM
    Aah poor Duane  ;D
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Frank on March 28, 2008, 09:14:56 AM
    It will now  :sleep:
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: KevinH on March 28, 2008, 12:44:58 PM
    To help with the general subject, I will soon try to get some reasonable photos of my set added here (and hey, I might even post some high res ones to Frank, too, now that I have the means to do so ;D ). I will also attempt some shots of the inserts / place holders to show how they are precisely constructed.
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Anne on March 28, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
    Quote from: Frank on March 28, 2008, 09:14:56 AM
    It will now  :sleep:

     >:D >:D >:D
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: Frank on March 28, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
    Down Anne, good girl (http://www.debook.com/gifs/Mailtiger.gif)
    Title: Re: Paperweight handle jiggers
    Post by: paperweights on March 30, 2008, 03:48:14 AM
    The barsets were made by Lassman & Co of London.  See the following link for a summary of the history. 

    http://paperweights.com/lassman.htm (http://paperweights.com/lassman.htm)

    To the best of my knowledge, the double jiggers were not sold separately.  Lassman purchased the handles from Pirelli, so makes sense that Pirelli also offered sets through their catalog as Frank has established. 

    I've had correspondence from two members of the Lassman family stating that no metal components were sold to Dunlop or Pirelli, but they may have sold complete sets or assembled barware.  They also confirmed a stock of the "silk-lined" boxes for items sold separately and in sets.  I am also pursuing a new lead which may yield additional information.  Interestingly, the barware items stayed in the Lassman catalog at least 1981, although no new handles were purchased after 1975 or earlier. 

    I've owned a few complete sets, including one plated with gold.  All of the sets have fixed locations for the various components.  I also have had some boxed individual items with just a bottle opener, corkscrew, or a mechanical corkscrew.  The non-mechanical corkscrews and bottle openers were in the same type of box and it is clear that the can opener could have been sold it the same way.  Maybe even the two piece pourer was also sold this way.  The spoon or double jigger wouldn't fit in one of these boxes. 

    (http://paperweights.com/pw1096.jpg)

    Finally, there are two different sizes of spoons, only one of which would fit in the set with the case.  The other spoon is longer.

    Let me know if you would like any other information.

    Allan