Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Frank on March 31, 2008, 05:10:59 PM
-
Last couple of pages of the catalogue going in now and plenty more surprises.
What distinguished a Pickle Jar (http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/5c937831164d7e4faf33571fac08c2f9.jpg) a Chutney Jar (http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/e9e8c355560e6ca9eea46d170ba0f68d.jpg) and a Preserve Jar (http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/db76acffee09467f9a295cd3b11dd1b9.jpg). I presume it is size, unfortunately the catalogue gives no sizes for these standard tableware items. None of the S&W preserve jars show a ground top.
What pickle would need a lip and handle though (http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/78e5bfba44b4165acef85be3ef07b0b0.jpg)
But this was a surprise: Cut Preserve Nappie (http://www.glasscatalogue.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/abc9b24e49b215280742baf1136051e1.jpg) I cannot find a root for this term in this usage?
-
What pickle would need a lip and handle though
To drain off excess fluid? Or perhaps the 'pickle' in those days was a runny sauce.
Charles could help with your queries, but he is exceptionally busy ATM.
-
The jug pickle I can see, all that lovely oniony vinegar for dribbling on your chips. Nappie is usually used for handled thingys, not ones on pedestals :huh:
-
Seems like S&W commonly used some of their own terminology and spellling for things. Marketing ploys, perhaps, to stretch out popular lines. The preserve looks more like a serving item, with its more delicate finial (though I suppose anything cut would be a serving item). Perhaps it also had a slot in the lid for a spoon. Preserves here don't usually have ground necks.
Without sizes it's pretty hard to judge. I like this theory, "Or perhaps the 'pickle' in those days was a runny sauce." I picture what we in the US today call a relish, or pickled relish.
-
Pickle in the UK means anything preserved in vinegar, which may or may not be spiced, from whole eggs and onions to cucumbers, gherkins and other vegetables (which are either cooked, blanched or raw and then put into vinegar), to various fruits and vegetables chopped up and cooked in the vinegar with sugar and spices (what I think you mean by relish and what we should probably call a chutney). Preserve is a jam (jelly) or marmalade.
When you think about Frank's jars and their possible contents, it starts to make sense. Chopped up squishy stuff in the narrow chutney, whole or bulky things in the fatter pickles (those with tasty vinegar in one with a spout). Here the ground tops keep the vinegar smell in. Preserve in a covered jar to keep the dust out or on the compote (nappie). These were all for serving - not for preserving. Of course it was a marketing ploy. Why sell someone one all-purpose pickle jar for all pickles when they might buy three different ones.
When you think about it how many sizes or plate do you really need? Most of us have more than one!
-
The term "nappy" is one that has absorbed ( ;D) Carnival Glass collectors for years. It is usually used to describe a small dish, that may or may not, have one handle (if it does, it is usually called a handled nappy). It can be collar based or pedestal based. The name nappie / nappy can be seen in catalogues (eg Crown Crystal). I've heard various theories regarding the origin / root.
http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/cartoonNappy.html
;D
Glen
-
Intriguing that the term Nappie is not covered by dictionaries when it is not such a new term. Is see the spell checker suggest 'Nappies' or 'Nap Pie'. ;)
-
Possibly... the jam will have a slotted lid for the spoon, whereas it's not 'etiquette' to leave a spoon in chutney!
-
None of these appear to have a slotted lid. As a child when these things were still in use at home they did not have slotted lids either, we used a knife not a spoon. Hotel jam pots did have a slot and spoon though.
-
Nappie is still current US terminology, see here (http://www.instawares.com/nappie-bowls.152.3.7742.0.0.8.htm) for all the sizes and all the colours
And see here for origin (source www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary))
Nappy, plural nappies
Etymology: English dialect nap bowl, from Middle English, from Old English hnaepp; akin to Old High German hnapf bowl
Date: circa 1864 – a rimless shallow open serving dish
-
Excellent detective work ;D
-
And nappy and nappie would just be spelling variants
-
Nice one, Christine :clap:
-
Possibly... the jam will have a slotted lid for the spoon, whereas it's not 'etiquette' to leave a spoon in chutney!
It's not just an etiquette thing Jay. Some pickles will actually damage a spoon if left in it - somewhere we have a spoon with a part of its coating missing where it was left in a vinegar-based pickle - it literally stripped off the surface. :o (Think what it does to your insides then!!! >:D)
-
Yes, I'm a nicely brought up boy who knows these things! and is entrusted with the family silver (-plate).
It reminds me how obscure this type of info is becoming!
As I'm developing texts for my site I'm constantly aware of the role these things play in glass design. Whilst they might be known to glass collectors, the younger crowd have no idea about the manners of the past.
Things we might need to remind younger glass collectors, include;
Until the war most people in most countries were still buying their basic foodstuffs in a 'plain brown wrapper' or small paper bag
It was considered 'uncivilised' to put commercial wrappings on the table, so many things like (sugar and milk) needed to be moved to a 'presentation' container, even cigarettes were placed in a beaker or box before being offered to guests.
Likewise many foods were presented in a large bowl with smaller individual bowls for each person. Not only cakes, but also bonbons, biscuits and peanuts/snacks. Wines and spirits were transferred to decanters partly for similar reasons.
E.g. Recently I found what I assumed was a flower frog for three stems, but turns out to be a 'cigarette stand'!
The serving sizes for most things have increased a lot, and glasses, plates etc. have tended to get bigger accordingly. The earlier the stemware is often less practical in use because of modern serving sizes.
After the war, butter packaging changed (in Holland) and instead of round pats, was sold in the square blocks we get today. This meant redesign for butter dishes!
The dutch used to serve 'bowl', an odd concoction of (tinned/fresh) fruits, sauces, wine(?) and custards etc. which came in a large vessel with small cups and a ladle. Since this delicious(?) delicacy died in the 50's (condemned as poverty food) it has become lost in social history. If you are under 30 you will never understand why people did it, or what the object is for! LOL!
Do you have any more ideas for these sorts of pointers which need to be noted for history before all civilized table manners disappear?
Sorry mods; this is probably wandering 'off topic'.
-
Just think of all that washing up... :o
-
Finger bowls for the better-off and knife rests and individual salts - all long-since gone from our tables. Napkin rings for proper cloth napkins (not paper serviettes. ) All this could be called the Social History of Glass I suppose Jay.
-
If I might continue the wibble a bit longer, my mother had two lovely salts with a blue glass insert and silver (real tarnishable) outsides. Lost, unfortunately, to the wicked witch of the west (step-mother). Lost and gone forever.
Carolyn