Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: alexander on April 03, 2008, 11:55:02 AM
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Hi, I bought this lady on ebay, wrongly marked as a french end of day paperweight, tho I suspect
none of the bidders actually belived that.
She appears to be quite old, but how old is what I am struggeling with.
Measurements and details first :
5" tall, almost 2.5" wide at the widest.
Parts/or whole of her body has a hole through it - as seen on the picture showing the base.
The body seems to be made up of different colored glass bits, with what appears to be melted millefiore beads
in some parts. The surface is matte, with discolorations. Looks almost like
pate de verre
Her eyes are the most intrigueing detail and also what I expect will help identify (part of) her origin.
Both eyes are face beads, I have seen these attributed to Phoenician, Roman, Venetian etc makers.
They're very well made
Since I know nouhgt about Roman or Phoenician glass or even antique Venetian I hope
someone here can help.
Thanks :)
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Great fun ;D and im sure she reminds me of someone :-\
For what its worth, my instincts say its quite recent.
but shes lovely anyway
Andy :D
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I don't think it's very recent, those face beads seem similar to other, older, verieties.
I'm sure someone will recognize them in the end :)
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Very interesting! Quite odd, too, with that hole in it. Maybe this is a dumb question, but are you sure it's glass?
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Quite sure it's glass :)
I have a small roman duck figurine dated to approx 300BC, it has a similar hole through it's body.
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Take it to a museum, as there are probably more repros than originals circulating now, odds are it i a repro. They tend to be as good as the original but when you see a shop full it is clear that were all aged identically, whereas each original will have unique ageing. Glassmakers making such things are meticulous in reproducing methods, colours and every detail. I presume experience with a lot of originals is needed to differentiate and probably some have even passed that test.
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Is it worth popping this in paperweights for a while, maybe one of the PW collectors
will have an idea or opinion on the canes used for her eyes and mouth (and the rest of her)
Alex? if you agree, ask a moderator.
Andy 8)
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The "face canes" seem to me to be much too bright and crisp to have any substantial age.
If anyone knows of any images with "face canes" like those, I would be pleased to know about them. I am aware of some examples included in beads made in India, possibly mid to late 20th century, but the design of the "face" is quite different.
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I think both Paperweights and Murano might be good categories for a visit.
Moderator - maybe move to paperweights?
KevH - I agree the face beads are very crisp, googeling I've found quite a few samples of different face beads
that look quite well for their age.
This page holds some beads similar to mine :
http://www.ancienttouch.com/ancientbeads-mosaic-antiquity.htm
If they are trustworthy or not I don't know.
I did see a face bead very similar to the ones in my figurine sell on ebay recently, it attracted a bit of interest.
One theory I have is that this figurine was made outside the beads origin at some later date.
I think a museum visit as Frank suggested might be the best thing in the end unless someone knows
something definate.
Thanks
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Thanks for the link to the page with face cane items. Very interesting.
Below are some (optimised) pics that I took in May 2006 of some of a paperweight collector friend's beads and a plate. The faces are very similar, and in some cases, seem to be identical, to those in the website. My friend bought the plate separately from the beads but the beads were certainly purchased from a shop in India and were not sold (or bought) as "antique".
All images clickable for larger view
Plate with face canes (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9804) - decoration scattered throughout the clear, but rather bubbly, glass (the apparent tint to the glass is just my not-so-good photograph of that item)
Enlargement from the plate (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9803)
String of beads (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9807), one with face canes
Large barrel-shaped bead 1 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9805)
Large barrel-shaped bead 2 (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9806)
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A fun plate :)
They sell those beads, or very similar, here - http://www.beadbonkers.com/Whimsy.html
at the bottom of the page.
This bead (http://www.fou.uib.no/fd/1997/f/508002/), not similar to these beads but interesting anyways,
was found right here in Norway in a grave dated to 3-600 AD.
A pretty amazing bead and the text, sadly only in Norwegian, tells how archeologists think this particular bead
depicts either Konstantin or his mum Helena and would have been made sometime after AD290 when K was born.
The beads on this page (http://www.ornamentmagazine.com/collecting_beads.html) are similar to mine, especially the hair or top of the head. Here's one (http://www.artemission.com/ViewItemDetails.asp?ItemNumber=17.11456) from Artemission.
This site features a few face beads and purport to be archeologist run, Virtual Egyptian Musem (http://www.virtual-egyptian-museum.org/Collection/FullVisit/Collection.FullVisit-JFR.html?../Content/GLS.VS.01012.html&0)
I'm learning some very cool stuff about glassmaking and beads in researching this.
From what I can tell the type of beads this figurine has for eyes, or the originals if these are repro,
are believed by some to have been made in Alexandria around 1-200 AD altho evidence appears to be thin.
I also less inclined to think this is a Phoenician or P repro, I mentioned Phoenician as a possibility in
my first post but all the samples I see are Roman or Roman repro.
I've been intrigued by the seeming disparity between the quality of the face beads compared to the body,
I'm going to contact the Archelogical institue of the University of Oslo to get their input.
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Dear all,
in 2006 we visited a "medieval age festival" where every kind of medieval jewellery was offered- one had beads in stone and glass and I picked
three one inch beads, two with checkerboards and flower stripes, and one with faces all around. 2 Euros per piece... 1 for smaller ones.
The face is very similar to the type seen on the 5th picture on the website below,- my bead is surely not 600 years old but well made...
The seller kindly told me that she got the beads from Java and were made recently as replica under the name of "jatim" beads,
nd there is some newly production in Ghana/Africa but she has run out of that sort...
Please see another website: https://baliqueartsofindonesia.com/blogs/blog/face-beads
and search the net for "face bead" or even better "jatim bead/jatim face bead",
kind regards from Austria, Erhard