Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => USA => Topic started by: mhgcgolfclub on May 03, 2008, 02:50:25 PM
-
Any help please on the pattern of this Hawkes brilliant cut glass bowl, the cutting looks to be of exceptional quality, I have a couple of books on brilliant cut glass but still find it very hard to match patterns, it very similar to another bowl I have called Lorraine but not a 100% match, the bowl is cut on a very thick 0.5" blank, it measures 9.5" in diameter, and 3.5" tall and weighs over 2.4 kg or 5.5 lbs
thanks Roy
-
Roy,
had my Hajdamach book open most of the day, very similar bowl on page361,
'Brilliant cut dish with characteristic pin wheel motif of American cut glass of the period, Possibly libbey & Co c1900.
Not quite the same, and yours looks a lot more intricate cutting :D
Cheers
Andy
-
Andy
I forgot to say this item is Hawkes as it is signed in the center of the bowl which would date it to around 1903 -10 or there about, the 2 books I have are Identifying American Brilliant Cut Glass by Bill and Louise Boggess and The American Cut Glass Industry T.G Hawkes and his Competitors, but it still does not make it easy to ID exact patterns
roy
-
Which mark does it have? And where did you read about it being used only 1903-1910? I didn't know there was one that was restricted to then.
Would it be possible to post a photo of your Lorraine? I haven't looked at all my books yet, but that does seem pretty similar. Sometimes designs are tweaked a bit. Hard to say, the images in the books are so tiny sometimes, and yours is very highly cut. Nice piece!!!
-
Kristi
The mark is shown in the above picture which has the word HAWKES under the trefoil which was used from about 1902 or 03, found in the book 'The American Cut Glass Industry T.G Hawkes and his competitors' the book does not say up to what year the mark was used and I think what I was trying to say more was I thought the bowl would date to between those years
The bowl has now been very kindly ID as Lorraine pattern by Warren Biden of the House of Brilliant Glass who as you also said patterns were slightly adapted to fit different size bowls and shapes
I would also say my other half and myself just love this Brilliant cut glass , and since finding my 1st piece about 2 years which also seems to be a Hawkes bowl in Lorraine pattern have now collected about 15 pieces all from around the London area , cannot be certain that all are American as there seems to be other European makers who did make similar items, but this piece was the piece I been looking for as its my 1st with an acid etched mark other than an exceptional Canadian Jug by Gowan and Kent and a rose bowl,
Roy
-
Hartmann gives 3 examples of that mark with two variants including Gravic above. Without Gravic he dates its use as 1895-1962. The Gravic ones from 1902-1962 and 4 versions without Hawkes below.
All but one of those marks he backs up with up to 3 references to literature.
-
That's great to know that I was right! I found another example after writing you and was pretty certain that's what it was. Identifying rich cut glass is not something I attempt very often - not until lately, anyway, so it feels like an accomplishment.
Sorry, I didn't see the mark photo. It confused me when you said '03-'10, but now I understand what you meant.
I'd like to see some of your other cut glass. As you say, there was/is a lot of it being made in Eastern Europe, but often it can be fairly easy to distinguish between that and American items, which generally are much more desirable (if you equate desirable with how much people are willing to pay for it).
That really is an amazing piece, and it's also pretty amazing that you have another piece in the same pattern.
-
Hi, Roy! Your Lorraine bowl is a stunning example of American Brilliant Period cut glass. I'll bet Warren Biden knew that pattern on sight. His glass is pictured in quite a few of my reference books and he is known as one of the best photographers of American Brilliant Period cut glass.
I second Kristi's request to see what other cut glass pieces you have.
-
Hi Kristi and KarenR
Thanks for showing interest in my ABP glass, some pictures of my better pieces including my other unmarked Lorraine pattern bowl and a Hawkes unmarked 2 piece Punch bowl in the Raleigh pattern which was ID by Greg Randall, I have also included a picture of what I thick is an exceptional piece of Canadian cut glass a large Jug made by Gowans ,Kent and Company which is acid etched signed on the base, I be interested on any comments about this piece, as I read that some collectors did not rate the Canadian glass that highly, with some of my lesser items I think it may be best to start a new topic
Roy
-
I have now also had this bowl which I had been told was a Hawkes Lorriane pattern now been correctly ID very kindly by Warren Biden as being cut by the Niagara cut glass Co of Buffalo - NY in a pattern called Buffalo
Roy
-
Roy, I thought you might like to see an example of the Hawkes Lorraine pattern on another piece, a lamp. It's interesting to see how they chose to adapt a pattern to different shapes.
I also found an advertisement for Niagara's Buffalo pattern, again so you can see (hopefully) adaptation of the pattern on different shaped pieces. I also took a close up of the bowl as it is most pertinent to your own piece. Sometimes the ads are all there is to go on. Buffalo is not in my Niagara catalog reprint, but Warren Biden has a reference library that far exceeds my own.
-
I was just reading a bit about Canadian cut glass in Swan's American Cut and Engraved Glass. Evidently they didn't have anything in the way of good blank makers, so the good cut glass made there is on American or high-quality European blanks. The cut glass industry was small, and many of the patterns were copied from American ones.
In connection with Gowans, Kent and Co. it talks a fair bit about Harry Clapperton, who moved from Stourbridge when he was 12, apprenticed with Libbey from ages 17-27, then began at Gowans, Kent in 1900; "It is said that he originated glass cutting in Canada at this firm." By 1905 he started his own firm. It doesn't say whether Gowans, Kent kept cutting after that.
Since you invited comments on the pitcher - I personally wouldn't class it with most of the other glass you've shown us. The design isn't very difficult to execute, or very inspired. Is the crosshatching polished? It doesn't appear to be. Most American cut glass aficionados would point to that alone and conclude it probably wasn't American, and I suspect they would also point to the jug as evidence for the Americans' rich cut glass superiority. BUT it's an entirely different thing seeing a piece in a single photo, and seeing it in person! I guess I just find your other pieces more interesting/impressive.
...(EDIT) I just possibly found the pattern of your jug. The general motif is called Harvard. Swan shows a few pieces by Gundy-Clapperton (where Clapperton went after Gowan, Kent) called Hob Star. Two of them have a hobstar border, but there's also a cologne shown (pg. 155) that doesn't have the border, it's all Harvard, and still called Hob Star. See Leni's thread - she has a bowl that may be the same pattern.
-
Thanks Kristi and Karen
I do sort of agree with you about the jug, I think one of the reason we like it is that it is at least signed, as far as I can see at present only a very small percentage which is found in the UK is signed, after speaking to one of your experts on ABP via email last year he had his own idea on why this may have been , he believed that there may have been British retailers like webb who bought some ABP to retail in there own shops and did not want items marked or signed so they could be passed off as there own.
My last 2 items are footed Comports, the first one is 8" in height and weighs 4.9 lbs , while the second is 6.2" and weighs 3.2 lbs, the second one does a have a little impurities within the glass, these 2 comports both have hollow open concaved bases not solid flat bases
Roy
-
Wait to see what Karen says, but I suspect these are good candidates for being non-American, especially the last one.
There is plenty of ABP here that isn't signed, either! The same theory might apply - it was made for retailers who asked for it not to be signed.
-
Hello Roy:
Of these pieces I quite prefer the Canadian cut glass piece, but then again I'm Canadian.
Harry Clapperton with his mother and siblings emigrated from Stourbridge in 1884 to the United States. His father Walter, a glass cutter, apparently having already emigrated to Corning, NY earlier. Corning was an absolute hot bed of glass cutting in that time frame. Sometime before 1889, the family moved to Toledo to work at W. L Libbey & Son. In 1900, Gowans & Kent started their cutting operations with Harry Clapperton in charge and operated up to about 1918. Harry Clapperton started his own company about 1904/5 and formed a partnership with Nathaniel Gundy to form Gundy-Clapperton & Co. Ltd in November 1906. This firm and it's successors operated until 1974 when Clapperton's was purchased by Val St. Lambert. Like most of the cut glass companies in North America, the Canadian factories were cold glass shops that purchased their blanks from glass manufacturers like Libbey, Dorflingers, Val St. Lambert, Baccarat etc. I think, in general, Gundy-Clapperton has the better reputation of these two firms but that may be due to the longevity of the firm and the larger volume of signed product.
-
Do you know if Gowan, Kent & Co. continued to cut glass after Clapperton left? It sounds like they didn't before he came.
" I think, in general, Gundy-Clapperton has the better reputation of these two firms but that may be due to the longevity of the firm and the larger volume of signed product."
That makes sense. It sounds like Clapperton was the best designer in Canada, and he was only with Gowan 4 years at the beginning of his career, when cut glass at the company was just starting.
It would be interesting to see close-up photos of your jug and Leni's Hob Star bowl together to compare the patterns and execution. In fact, I was going to ask one of you for a close-up of the pattern to use in an illustrated index of cut glass motifs I'm working on for Frank's Glass Catalogue. And maybe other motifs. There are a few I don't have yet.
-
Kristi:
I am told, by a good researcher, that there is a 1914 ad for Gowans, Kent that states "..manufacturers of cut glass" so apparently they survived the loss of Clapperton.
-
Cheers, Sid. Thank heavens for advertising!
I must have been dreaming when I thought the pitcher was the same as Leni's bowl. I've changed my mind, no longer think it's Hob Star. Sorry!
Identifying ABP is very difficult for many reasons. There are thousands of patterns, many of them poorly documented, if at all. They're often very complex, but all draw from a limited set of motifs, so there aren't really unique patterns to look for. Many appear alike, some look almost exactly alike. Often a pattern is a bit different depending on the object it's found on.
...which means don't expect any quickie answers!