Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: krsilber on June 01, 2008, 03:15:55 AM
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This is driving me crazy. I can't tell how the item in this listing was made:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250250750126&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015
Where the donuts made separately and stuck in the sides of a mold? Were they marvered in? From the bottom it looks like they were cased with clear on the outside. Is it graal? Fused glass?
From the top is looks ceramic.
Photo's now uploaded to GlassGallery, full permission granted from kindly Ebayer. :)
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10350
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10349
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Kristi, I posted this one on the ebay board... I want to know who made it. the base of it looks like china to me, the gravelly bottom cut clean off. I think it's cased glass. the donuts look like bloomed crystalline glaze. I've never seen it on glass before but it does look like cased glass to me. I'd been all set to bid on it if it was finishing in the ten dollar range out of curiousity but 141?? WTF is it? Looking at the range of stuff the buyer has bought it looks like they are into contemporary art glass.
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looks like modern american studio glass to me - so not vintage and not bohemian.
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Nor is it graal, search board for details on that. The discs are probably marvered on and distorted in the blowing.
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Azelismia, that's how I first saw it, through your post - thanks for bringing such a curious object to my attention (even if inadvertently!). I don't know if I like it, but it sure is intriguing.
So if the "donuts" are marvered in, how are they made? Looking at the bottom, they seem to be a layer of bluish on the interior with some thin reddish brown over that. The black lines (which are quite thin, sharp and distinct) seem to penetrate the blue just a bit and there's black around the donuts' edges. I would think in the process of marvering the lines would lose some of their sharpness by being stretched and flattened.
That's why I thought of graal. I guess I'm thinking of the term pretty loosely as being twice-heated with some kind of decoration between layers. What if:
- Object was made with the bluish/brownish donuts marvered in and annealed.
- Once cool, etched to create the shape of the black lines, which were then filled with black enamel (or fine frit).
- Item reheated, cased clear and annealed.
- Etched again on yellow areas, which are matte and slightly recessed.
Total guesswork on my part!
It's also a little odd that it's dark on just part of the inside of the vase - a thin opaque brown layer that looks a lot like glaze. I wish I could examine it closely! I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is ceramic, though it would be pretty odd to have a pontil mark on a ceramic piece.
I found a few threads that talked briefly about graal (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,3004.0.html, http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1025.0.html, http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1660.0.html,) but didn't look at all that resulted from a search for "graal."
This piece of graal is somewhat, sort of reminiscent of the vase in question, at least insofar as there's a textured-looking area bordered by another color (though of course, totally different in other ways!):
http://www.siddy.com/index_files/Page4783.htm
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Graal is one or more coloured layer cased over the base, after annealing a design is then created using sandblast or acid. Finally, usually clear cased and blown to final size. It is one of the most expensive decoration techniques there is, hence not widely used.
In this case I suspect small bubbles were blown and decorated, flattened out and then used on the other vessel.
Examples of Graal on SG link (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?keyword=graal&Search=Search&Itemid=51&option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&vmcchk=1).
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Is the Hoglunds' painted graal then not considered real graal? (Honest question, not meant to sound cheeky.)
In this case I suspect small bubbles were blown and decorated
But this is the part I have trouble understanding. How would you decorate something to get it to look like those donuts? Where do the sharp black lines, and the black outline come from? I need specifics! ;D
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The paint method was originally marketed as easy graal but is in reality a completely different approach. some have used the paints effectively but mostly it produces garish results. One aspect of graal is the subtlety of shading that can be uniquely achieved - think of it more as freehand cameo that then gets blown larger. An artist can spend days or even weeks on a single piece only to see the composition destroyed in the final blowing - one reason that it usually gets priced in 4 figures. Lindean Mill produced one design a year and, if they got lucky, about 12 pieces were made each year. One year the entire edition cracked during annealling.
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One year the entire edition cracked during annealling.
How heartbreaking for those involved!
Graal can be extraordinarily beautiful. I love the Dragonfly vase on the SG link.
I agree that the painted "graal" can be garish. Seems like it wouldn't have to be that way - depends on the painter. Still, I appreciate the depth and shading that true graal can produce which couldn't be achieved with paint.
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I think that the base is combination of being misleading and yet a giveaway. The doughnuts are applied as trails . The trails are a made from a thick layer of opaque celadon that has been rolled into a combination of different powdered colours, probably at least one brown and black. The celadon only becomes apparent on the base because this has been ground down to level it and some of the thin brown/black layer has been removed.
Once applied the trails are marvered or papered into the surface, prior to blowing up the piece.
Those who commented that this is nothing to do with graal are correct! :)
As to painted Graal, one of the masters of this technique is my friend Vic Bamforth http://www.vicbamforthglass.com/
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I've been out of town for a few days, and I'm just now getting back to this thread.
Thanks, Adam, for having a look at it, as I requested. The graal idea was a shot in the dark, and quickly abandoned (Vic's jazzy work was mentioned in another thread recently; I didn't know he was a friend of yours). I understand how the "donuts" could have been added to the piece, the thing I'm confused about it their decoration. The brown is straightforward, it's the black that gets me: the donuts are outlined in black, the black lines on them seem to penetrate the celadon more than the brown (as seen on the bottom), and the lines are quite thin and well-defined. Just before leaving town I had a look in one of my books showing a couple somewhat similar pieces, and once I hit the road I started thinking about it...what if the black lines started as threads of glass (rather than powdered) that were marvered into the pre-formed donuts? And the backs of the donuts maybe dipped in black powdered glass to create the outlines? So the donuts would be more like marquetry than like trails. Just an idea I had as I rolled through boring MN farmland.
The book I was looking at (Ricke's Glass Art, Reflections of the Centuries) shows a bowl/vase that reminded me of this, with the description, "Lampblown. Assembled in montage technique. The embedded band [which is sorta similar to the donuts] is striped with colored enamel canes." Can montage be done on blown, cased glass?
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The Montage technique is a specific lampwork technique developed by Albin Schädel in Lauscha.
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The discs are probably marvered on and distorted in the blowing.
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The discs are probably marvered on and distorted in the blowing.
This still doesn't tell me how the thin, sharp black lines and the black outline are achieved. I understand how the piece could have been assembled, it's those details that have always been puzzling to me. How do you get such a regular black outline, even on the bottom, in areas of the celadon where the surface has been ground away? How is it that the thin black lines penetrate the celadon more than the brown? How do they remain distinct from the surrounding brown areas, and retain their sharpness? It is questions like these that made me at first wonder about graal, and whether they could have been scratched in and painted on (though, as I said, I've abandoned that idea).
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The brown is straightforward, it's the black that gets me: the donuts are outlined in black, the black lines on them seem to penetrate the celadon more than the brown (as seen on the bottom), and the lines are quite thin and well-defined.
A guess, for Adam :-* to confirm or deny: Rolled in brown first, maybe even reheated slightly, then coated in the black powder. If then applied as a trail, the disks will be quite thick, and the pattern occurs when the disks are flattened. The edges are compressed leaving more black and brown powder there, forming the outlines. The As the disks distort and stretch during the blowing process, the marbelling effect occurs. How does that sound?
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Great to see another guess! Thanks for adding another hypothesis, Cathy. I'd thought about the marbling effect being caused by stretching or marvering, too, like the effect you get in stretch glass. I couldn't figure out how the brown alone would be stretched to reveal black but not the celadon underneath in the same manner, or why the black lines would go deeper.
I've given this a lot of thought, but not having worked directly with hot glass it's hard to know all its behavior except by imaginary reconstruction of finished pieces. Sometimes I make it more complicated than it actually is. ::)
I just realized something - the middle of the bottom shows a patch where the brown covers the black; very little shows through. I noticed this before, but now I wonder if its significance is that the piece wasn't marvered there much, and consequently the brown wasn't pounded past my imaginary network of thin pieces of black glass. But I'm probably grasping at straws. :P
Hee hee, from this and my skeleton mold thread and others, can you all tell I like to figure out precisely how this stuff was made? ;) :)
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they look like crystals that have been grown out like on pottery with the crystalline glaze. I wonder if there is some way to glaze a glass piece and bake it for the required amount of time?
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A guess, for Adam :-* to confirm or deny: Rolled in brown first, maybe even reheated slightly, then coated in the black powder. If then applied as a trail, the disks will be quite thick, and the pattern occurs when the disks are flattened. The edges are compressed leaving more black and brown powder there, forming the outlines. The As the disks distort and stretch during the blowing process, the marbelling effect occurs. How does that sound?
A very fair hypothesis! :)
Sometimes I make it more complicated than it actually is. ::)
It would be impolite to disagree! ;)
the middle of the bottom shows a patch where the brown covers the black; very little shows through. I noticed this before, but now I wonder if its significance is that the piece wasn't marvered there much, and consequently the brown wasn't pounded past my imaginary network of thin pieces of black glass.
Incorrect. It was marvered just as much as the other trails, otherwise it would be raised from the surface of the vase. :D
But I'm probably grasping at straws. :P
Correct! :)
Conclusion: I don't think anybody is going to be able to add much that will shed any more light on how this piece was made, unless someone is able to identify the maker and then we can ask them how they did it. :)
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Ooops. I made what could have seemd a strange comment in here.
Sorry if anyone saw it and wondered what I was on today. ;D
Removed by self-moderation.
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Ooops. I made what could have seemd a strange comment in here.
Sorry if anyone saw it and wondered what I was on today. ;D
Removed by self-moderation.
Been there, done that!!!
I don't think anybody is going to be able to add much that will shed any more light on how this piece was made, unless someone is able to identify the maker and then we can ask them how they did it.
Aha! >:D So you don't know how it was done! ;D ;) Who's to say I'm overcomplicating things then? :)
It was marvered just as much as the other trails, otherwise it would be raised from the surface of the vase.
Just for argument's sake, how do you know it wasn't? The base was ground down.
they look like crystals that have been grown out like on pottery with the crystalline glaze. I wonder if there is some way to glaze a glass piece and bake it for the required amount of time?
I've never heard of putting glaze on glass, but since you mention it, I'm going to be brave and bring up an idea that occurred to me before but I didn't dare seriously raise - that it's actually ceramic. Seems unlikely, I know, but not impossible. The brown on the interior is one thing that suggests it, since it's common to glaze the inside of ceramic vessels to combat porosity; why (and how) would you do that with glass? On the other hand, why have a ground circle on the bottom of a ceramic piece?
I've a feeling this topic is getting a bit stale :ac1:, so I won't belabor it any longer. However, it brings another generally applicable question to mind - when thick trails are marvered in, does it ever create a pattern of raised areas on the inside where the trails are?
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I've never heard of putting glaze on glass, but since you mention it, I'm going to be brave and bring up an idea that occurred to me before but I didn't dare seriously raise - that it's actually ceramic. Seems unlikely, I know, but not impossible. The brown on the interior is one thing that suggests it, since it's common to glaze the inside of ceramic vessels to combat porosity; why (and how) would you do that with glass? On the other hand, why have a ground circle on the bottom of a ceramic piece?
Try http://pottery.yobunny.com/
They will be able to tell you whether it is ceramic or not. :)
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On the other hand, why have a ground circle on the bottom of a ceramic piece?
Relatively simple really, to remove the signs of kiln furniture that may have become stuck to the item, due to glaze runs.
Regards,
Marcus
(Ex-Geo Wade, Burslem, (makers of Wade "Whimsies" and Bell's Scotch Whiskey bottles) and former kiln-fireman, Geo Wooliscroft and Sons Ltd, Hanley and Etruria)
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True, I hadn't thought of that. I wouldn't have thought they'd rely on something so small and centered to hold it, plus the rest of the bottom has been ground. But that could be the reason.
I'd envisioned it fired upside-down, but I suppose if you're going to have runs you don't want it messing up the rim (or worse, sealing it there and having it implode).
So! A former ceramics worker doesn't think my idea is completely far-fetched! ;D I've registered with the pottery forum Adam mentioned, and will ask about it there.
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No way it is ceramic, look carefully at the pontil scar and you will see it is clear glass and optically distorting the pattern that passes underneath, so the scar may have been polished, but it was not removed.
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But a clear glaze looks just like glass; glazes have many of the same components of glass. I've heard them described as a type of glass.
This wouldn't be the first time I've seen a ceramic piece mistaken for glass, if indeed that is the case here.
I did a lot of ceramic work in high school and university. At one time I thought about going into it professionally. One of my sculptures was shown at the Minneapolis Institute of Arts. It's kind of weird that I'm not interested in it now like I am in glass.
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looks like hot application bit work
large yellow gather on pipe ..then silver coloured gathers of glass ..bits ..were applied and marvered in to piece ..then tooled in to shapes on surface ..nice tech ..might try it next run ..thanx for link ..eat molten glass
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Thanks for the input, mtpaul. "Might try it next run"...are you a glass blower?
The thing is, that still doesn't say anything about how the pattern of colors, fine black lines, and black edge got on the disks, which is the only part I never really understood.
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Kristie got my curiosity aroused now ..spent a few minutes looking over said piece ..started off with pot of white opal ..coloured up 3 gathers or so ..yellow ..rolled in frit a few times ..created yellow surface ..now thinking ..they took some white glass and rolled in brown enamels or fine frit to brown up surface of white gather ..them think the mottled black lines and patterns look like black enamel over surface ..some times enamel will melt away and leave that look on surface if thinly applied ..maybe surface of gather was tooled to create patterns so when applied as bit on surface ..you get effect ..thought was silver glass at first ..reduction ..patterning ..is cute aesthetics ..try thin enamel less heat on pick up ..might create that effect ..on coloured bit twist while cutting off ..study effects ..practice ...experience as the educator .have fun ..peace out
think hot
work hotter
mt paul
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Kristie got my curiosity aroused now ..spent a few minutes looking over said piece ..started off with pot of white opal ..coloured up 3 gathers or so ..yellow ..rolled in frit a few times ..created yellow surface ..now thinking ..they took some white glass and rolled in brown enamels or fine frit to brown up surface of white gather ..them think the mottled black lines and patterns look like black enamel over surface that's what I thought at the beginning, which is the only reason I suggested graal. ..some times enamel will melt away and leave that look on surface if thinly applied How? what form is the enamel in and is the glass hot or cold? ..maybe surface of gather was tooled to create patterns so when applied as bit on surface ..you get effect It seems like a pretty fine network of lines - possible by tooling? ..thought was silver glass at first ..reduction ..patterning ..is cute aesthetics ..try thin enamel less heat on pick up ..might create that effect ..on coloured bit twist while cutting off ..study effects ..practice ...experience as the educator .have fun ..peace out
think hot
work hotter
mt paul
Excellent post, nice and detailed about the process...or is it fair to say a hypothesis of the process? I like it. Before I saw yours I had noticed something else, and worked out a different idea; I'll throw it out there just for the heck of it, even though I don't know if it would work.
If you look carefully at the disks, you can see a seam in the pattern of lines where the two ends of the rod come together. If the top of the vase is 12:00, the seams are at about 12:30 or one; you can see two of them in the second photo. OK, how 'bout this. Each disk started as a rod of celadon. One side was painted with brown enamel then thin black bands around half the cylinder, and thicker black lines on either side of that (running the length of the rod). Heat until you can bend it in a circle, make a ring, flatten it, and stick on your vase, intarsia style. Case with clear.
I don't know if that would really work, would it?
The effect looks painterly to me, I really like it.
But wait, the black lines really appear to cut into the celadon a bit. So is the black embedded in the rod? So much for my idea.
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This really is a puzzle but I still the ink the disks were blown, decorated and flattened separately and marvered in. Possibly then cooled base ground, reheated and yellow trails applied (Except the halo suggest that it was ground after the trailing and its thickness was greater than the amount ground off.
I wonder who made it?
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I agree with this part: "decorated and flattened separately and marvered in." The yellow was applied before the disks, though, to the whole thing, I'm pretty sure of that.
I wrote the winner to ask about it, but received no reply. With any luck that's because he/she was away for the July 4th weekend and will get back to me yet.
I'm afraid the ebay images will disappear any day! Maybe I'll write the seller to see if I can post them directly on the board.
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Good idea.
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Mt Paul, a couple questions:
You say "brown enamels or fine frit" - what is your definition of the two? These terms have been discussed in past threads, and it would be nice to hear your take on them. I think I misunderstood you before, believing you meant the enamel was painted on.
You mention the yellow was applied by rolling in frit. Looking at the rim, though, it looks more like cased to me because there's a clear division between the opaque white and the yellow. What do you (and others) think?
The basic steps here appear to me to be
- opaque white parison blown
- cased in opaque yellow
- vase shaped, disks marvered in
- cased in clear by dipping
- annealed
- yellow areas cut back slightly and satinized with acid; bottom ground
This leaves out the brown inside. I don't know what's up with that.
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I think MTPAUL was pretty close on his technique description. 'It appears to me that it was started as a white gather and blown to a larger size. Then it had bits applied as he suggested of ewnamels and some silver based glass that will change to many different colorations when placed in either a reducing or oxidizing flame. Then the yellow was applied with very large bits being trailed all over the piece. I thought I noticed on the bottom that the yellow was actually over the top of the same glass used for all the decoration, leading me to believe that it was put on later and it was placed a small bit in the middle of the large frit bits to make the donuts. Some of the bits were then manipulated to make them appear like leaves rising from the base.
Trying to get a good yellow to stay nice like this without encasing it and doing repeated reheats is always a challenge, unless it was encased in clear and then it can still be a challenge. ellows like to go orange unless they have enormous amounts of cadmium in them and very little selenium.
That's the way I would go about making it.
Fuhrman Glass Studios
Tenn. Tom
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Thanks, Tom! That's terrific, more input from a blower! I really think we're making headway.
I take back what I said earlier about my idea that the yellow was cased. Looking at it again, I can see how it might be just frit. I do think it was applied before the disks, though, and I'm afraid I can't imagine how it could have been applied in trails to achieve this result.
It's weird how I can still look at the photos and find things I didn't absorb before, though I've thought about this dang thang SO much.
I'm very intrigued by the silver idea and the way it behaves. Have to try to find some examples in my books - or does anyone have photos of a similar application of it?
I got a very nice reply from the seller, including permission to post the photos here. Yay! These are courtesy of Bob of Snappyauctions14 (ebay ID). He wasn't able to provide too much additional information, apart from the report from the consignee that it was bought in the western US, and that it's glass for sure.
I hope permission includes the right to write on them, 'cuz I did on a few to point out a couple things I mentioned earlier. Some of the photos will go in the next post, since I can only add 4 at a time.
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last two photos...
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big yellow parson .. probably white fritted up to have yellow outside surface. don't think any clear glass used this piece... bit of brown and black enamel ..might have been dumbed in optic mold to create some of those lines on applied bit work ..perhaps bit might have been rolled in various shades of blacks and browns then reheated before being tooled on surface of piece
might still be some silver glass in bit work also ..will ponder pictures later ..nice decoration technique ..
fun thread ..reverse engineering ..is fun to figure out others tech's ..peace out guys
think hot work hotter ..woof ..mt paul
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There is something about this piece that makes me think it might be a very old John Lewis piece? Does anyone else get that same feeling? probably 25+ years old before he got involved in casting bigtime.
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Wasn't familiar with John Lewis. Found this page showing a bunch of his older pieces, but the image is quite small. The descriptions are interesting, though. Many of the vases say "paperweight technique"
http://www.treadwaygallery.com/3-19-2000-sale/catalog/art_nouveau_glass/pg168.html
There are some other pieces of his in the same catalog. Hard to find other older stuff with Google, most of it's new.
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;D Sorry, I just keep posting and posting. I'm having so much fun with this thread. I like the reverse engineering too, Mt Paul.
And 3 professional blowers in the thread! Thank you all very much for contributing, and a big wecome to the forum to Tom and Mt Paul! :) :) :) With no experience with hot glass, I need someone to rein in my imagination. My idea about how the disks were made, for instance. Forget for a sec whether they really were made like this, would it hypothetically be possible to
- paint a glass rod with enamel
- heat it until malleable
- bend it into a circle and press it flat
- and marver it into an object?
Would it work, and if not, why not?
Please, I'd really like to know more about what you guys are calling enamel, and how it's different from frit. If the enamel were suspended in a liquid of some kind, could you paint it on? Same basic ingredients and result, just applied wet or dry?
I just realized something. It's always puzzled me that there were thin, relatively uniform black lines encircling the donuts and rimming their holes. They even extend to the ground areas on the bottom, where they are more noticeable. But if this is acid cutback, the whole thing could have been rolled in black before the disks went on, and all the black but those thin lines removed afterward.
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A big welcome to Tom Fuhrman from me.
:)
Good to see you here, Tom.
Glen Thistlewood
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Conclusion: I don't think anybody is going to be able to add much that will shed any more light on how this piece was made, unless someone is able to identify the maker and then we can ask them how they did it. :)
Now that we have a suggested maker, why not contact John Lewis and ask if he recognizes it. Then if it is one of his early pieces he may be able to explain how he did it. :)
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Trying to get a good yellow to stay nice like this without encasing it and doing repeated reheats is always a challenge, unless it was encased in clear and then it can still be a challenge. ellows like to go orange unless they have enormous amounts of cadmium in them and very little selenium.
Tom that one gave me a surprise, as I had always assumed the reverse based on orange Monart that often has changes to yellow - from what you say the orange colour was the changeling. These are almost certainly Kügler colours, pre WW2.
Example 1: (http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Colimages/Colour068.jpg)
Example 2: (http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Colimages/Colour384.jpg)
Example 3: (http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Colimages/Colour395.jpg)
Good to discover I was wrong, even after 20+ years of assumption.
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Frank: I wouldn't say you were wrong. Those colors may have worked that way at that time. The yellows, reds, and oranges can do all kinds of quirky things depending upon the particular mix and how it is reheated. I have friend who melts some other glass that will strike, yellow, green, and blue, depending upon how many times you reheat and to what temperatures you reheat it. Glass chemistry is really an art form of it's own.
I am always amazed at what I stumble across as different colors and techniques when I start experimenting. It gets real frustrating though when you can't go back and repeat a really nice effect that you stumble across. It also gets frustrating when some days the glass just won't do anything you want it to do and evertything is a problem. yesterday was one of those days.
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It also gets frustrating when some days the glass just won't do anything you want it to do and evertything is a problem. yesterday was one of those days.
My sympathies. I know exactly what you mean!
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I used to think that they used a mix of yellow and orange as they had a more consistent orange too but careful examination showed that many of the 'scales' sic showed all variations between orange and yellow. The reds they produced are rarely found consistent either with most examples having a lot of reddish orange. Temperature control was never a highlight of the families skills.
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This can happen in other colors too. Just had an experience with a signal green. My friend just couldn't get ti to melt in less than 400lb. batch without getting cords. Black copper and tin combination was supposedly the culprits. He'd done it befgore with good success but it had been a few years.
I've made lots of stuff that was red when it went in the annealer and came out next day just as orange as it could be. The crystals can grow at some temperatures and you're not aware of it as it happens.
A lot of collectors don't realize what a monster glass batching can be.
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painting with enamel on cold rod then reheating ..? depends what your binder or vehicle for your enamel is.. ..might burn out before enamel fuses ..easier to roll molten glass in enamel ..pick up hot ..enamel comes as dry powder ..have tried picking up enamel patterns on gathers and piece surfaces ,,find lines not definite enough for my liking ..often will roll first gather in white enamel then case a few times with clear ..then do colour work on surface ..flower designs ..find white enamel back ground ..creats nice bright canvas for colours ..makes them richer ..kinda of vailed cloudy back ground ..with clear colours creates many variations of shades and tones ..kinda like painting with molten glass ..think hot ..work hotter
expert glass blower ...please ...just 35 yr master ..no expert here ..glass shows me some thing new every day
peace out ..mt paul ...an education can not be bought nor sold ...must be earned .experience is the teacher
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Too true, but I bow to your student-ship. Thank you.
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When you use the phrase "enamel" what exactly are you referring to? Powdered rod or something else?
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Now that we have a suggested maker, why not contact John Lewis and ask if he recognizes it. Then if it is one of his early pieces he may be able to explain how he did it
Dandy idea, Adam...will do.
A lot of collectors don't realize what a monster glass batching can be.
Tom, I love hearing about glassmaking "from scratch." It really does seem incredibly tricky, an art form of its own is right.
The crystals can grow at some temperatures and you're not aware of it as it happens.
Crystals? I thought you didn't want crystal formation, that it would destabilize the glass - is this not true?
painting with enamel on cold rod then reheating ..? depends what your binder or vehicle for your enamel is.. ..might burn out before enamel fuses
It's that how painted hot enamels work though? The enamel has a flux (e.g. lead) to make it fuse at a lower temp.
..often will roll first gather in white enamel then case a few times with clear ..then do colour work on surface ..flower designs ..find white enamel back ground ..creats nice bright canvas for colours ..makes them richer ..kinda of vailed cloudy back ground ..with clear colours creates many variations of shades and tones ..kinda like painting with molten glass
I'd love to see some photos of this! Why case a few times with clear - once not enough?
Powdered enamels - additional flux, for lower fusion temperature? Always opaque?
I really think it's probable that the disks started as straight pieces, at least partly decorated before being made into donuts. Look at how the fine lines are so much closer together in the centers. Take a rod, heat it with a torch, roll one side in fine thread-like bits of black to get thin lines perpendicular to the length of the rod, partially embedded in it. Add some brown before or after the rings are made but before they are mushed, so it doesn't cover the black (which at that point still protrudes slightly above the surface). ...It just seems logical to me, considering the pattern of the fine black lines. That pattern has always seemed to me to be the key behind figuring this out.
I feel kind of like this is a rerun of the skeleton mold thread, when my ideas were so oft rejected as impossible, or ignored.
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I really think it's probable that the disks started as straight pieces, at least partly decorated before being made into donuts.
Quite a reasonable assumption, but not a breakthrough. :) It just shows how careful we need to be in describing some of these techniques. When marvering and trailing was discussed earlier by number of different members, including myself, there was an assumption that it would be clear that this involved normal colouring techniques in which you prepare "straight" coloured pieces that would then be heated up and brought to the piece hot, applied to create the "doughnuts" as short trails or bits, and then marvered in. I am afraid that it never occurred to me, nor I suspect to anybody else, that anyone would assume that the doughnuts would be made first and then coloured.
I think you should seriously consider taking a short glassblowing course as I think you would have a lot of fun and would understand some of the techniques you have been discussing with a greater insight. In just one afternoon, much of what fascinates you would come to life. :)
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Quite a reasonable assumption, but not a breakthrough.
No, I don't think it is, either. All I needed was a little validation! ;D
there was an assumption that it would be clear that this involved normal colouring techniques in which you prepare "straight" coloured pieces that would then be heated up and brought to the piece hot, applied to create the "doughnuts" as short trails or bits, and then marvered in.
This is why I asked for details. It's a false assumption that it will be clear to me exactly what steps are involved. Even now I don't quite understand - are you talking about preparing straight pieces while cold? And preparing them HOW?
Now I get it about the donuts being made of trails, formed directly on the piece.
I would love to take a course in glassblowing. I don't have the money for it. (So why do I care how this d**n thing was made?!) I've sat for hours watching it being done, though - you can learn a lot even doing that.
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red glass a passion ..
copper tin reds... add antimony to get redder reds 200grms per 50lbs sand
cad sel.... add silicon carbide..50 grm per 50lb sand
gold ...add sel. and antimony ..50 grm and 200 grm per 50 lbs sand
watching glass workers great way to learn
working solo 16 yrs ..miss watching ...
reheat reds and yellows ..reduction atmosphere ..
will hold colour better .....more gas less air ..
think hot ..work hotter
peace out ...mt paul ...
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I heard back from John Lewis. Not his, but he thought maybe Charles Lawton or Mark Peiser, two more people I don't know anything about. Couldn't find any glass by Lawton in a Google search, though it wasn't exhaustive by any means. The Peiser stuff I saw was cast glass.
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It's Charles Lotton, but I don't think it was his and not Mark Peiser's either. I'v known both of them for many years. Maybe George Thiewes? He was in VT or NH in the 70's. I haven't seen any of his stuff in years and can't recall exactly all he did.
Mark Peiser and Charles Lotton are 2 great glassblower's though and have their stuff in many museums. Check out their prices, they are the top level of modern day glassworkers.