Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: s-prince on June 01, 2008, 03:32:36 AM
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Hi, I have this lovely 11 1/2 inch diameter, enameled bride's bowl and am having trouble with who made it (as well as how to classify it).
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/3/5/5/6/webimg/138864619_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/3/5/5/6/webimg/138864631_o.jpg)
The enameling is exquisite and the glass coloring just as shown in the photos at those urls. Any help would greatly be appreciated!!
Thanks!
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Don't know Samantha but as always your pictures are beautiful.
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Those links don't work and cause an attempt to install something, moderators advised.
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I'm not getting an installation message, but for some reason Firefox 2 is downloading the images rather than opening them as it should do. I *think* it's because auctiva images have some extra data in them to make them default to 400x300 pixels in size and the browser gets confused and tries to download them instead. There doesn't appear to be anything nasty going on Frank. :)
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Weird, now just images appear in the first post, or did you change it Anne :huh:
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May we see a bottom and side view?
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Hi! Here are some additional photos.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/3/5/5/6/webimg/138864662_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/3/5/5/6/webimg/138864676_o.jpg)
Also, thanks crystalclear for the kind comments!!
Mod: Links to images to solve Firefox/Auctiva interaction problems
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Sorry Frank, I should have said that, I did tweak the code to show the images. :)
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Very nice!
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Wow, beautiful piece! Great colors.
Bride's bowls usually stump me, I'm afraid. I've often thought it would be an interesting little study to look at the different crimping patterns used by various companies.
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The pattern is similar to vase below,i think Bohemian circa 1930s.
Not much help , but an idea?
Andy
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It certainly does have the Bohemian style enamel going. However, that was adopted by English companies as well. I don't know about American ones, but I wouldn't be surprised.
My guess is English. BWDIK?
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Now I would have said probably not English... ;D
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Um, that was my second guess - not English!
Could be American, too. Maybe. :-\
I'm not sure why, but it doesn't seem Bohemian to me. The glass color combination I think.
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I just stumbled on an interesting passage in Baldwin's Moser Artistic Glass (well, two - the other one is in the cut crystal UV thread).
"Webb produced enameled glassware which, in some cases, is virtually indistinguishable in style, decorative motif and technique of excecution, from similar items produced by Moser. Wee emplyed the composite enamel-gilt decorating technique, widely employed by Moser decorators...emphasized naturalistic themes such as flowers, insects and aquatic life forms and employed Bohemian style Baroque scrollwork in their decorative designs. Typically, Webb designs are worked on opaque single layer or cased glass blanks; Moser desgns are more often found on single layer or cased transparent blanks."
I wonder just how typical it is, as generalizations go.
Why didn't they just make some rules and follow them? The English did this, the Bohemians did that, and ne'er the twain shall meet! It would be so much easier.
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I really appreciate everyone's help and attempts to id this! The glass color has to indicate something, I just don't know what. Someone once suggested Wheeling Peachblow?
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Hi Samantha,
where are you? Im presuming UK, or are you other side of pond? (or channel? or pacific? or....)
Andy ;)
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Hi there Andy, I'm in the USA... Pennsylvania. 8)
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Thanks Samantha,
it may be a good clue to its origin! Possibly USA,
Uh, ive got nuffin :-X
Anyone?
:D
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My first thought was American too, but no idea really either.
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I really appreciate everyone's help and attempts to id this! The glass color has to indicate something, I just don't know what. Someone once suggested Wheeling Peachblow?
That's a possibility. The colors don't seem really typical, your red has got a purplish tinge to it, but colors did seem to vary a bit. The transition is pretty abrupt, too. Can you tell if the outer edge of the red is any darker than that about 1 1/2" in from the edge? Another thing is that the white liner of Wheeling peachblow seems really super white and dense, but that too may have varied. I've never seen any of it enameled, though.
I now agree American is a good bet. The company remains a big question mark. New England, Hobbs, Brockunier and Mt. Washington are possibilities. Mt. Washington seems a particularly strong one to me, worth investigating anyway.
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Slightly OT, but Hobbs, Brockunier and "Wheeling" are one and the same.
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Thank you for clarifying that...I've thought the same for a while now but it's nice to have it confirmed (I didn't mean to confuse people here - should have said it differently). For some reason it's very common to refer to Hobbs, Brockunier's peach blow (Coral, actually) as Wheeling peach blow. Shuman's American Art Glass shows pieces on the same page, calling some Wheeling and some Hobbs, Brockunier!
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I guess bouncing it off the Corning Museum folk would be the next step.
As to Hobbs etc, Ivo's Glass Fact file, gives Wheeling as the location and the name changes of the company. Perhaps Wheeling gets used when items span name changes. It is quite common to get glassworks names and the company name confused, particularly in older books, but sometimes because items were sometimes marked with one or the other of the two names and no-one knows the connection. Interestingly that in 1910 the Pottery Gazette list Tomey & Son, Tay Glass Works as the only glassworks in Perth. Yet at that time the North British Glassworks was also there run by John Moncrieff Ltd who also owned Tomey and the Tay glassworks - I have never been able to find out why both companies were kept in existence, presumably just business instruments. On the web you will rarely find North British Glassworks linked to Moncrieff because their target balls, only, were marked N B Glassworks and almost everything else as Moncrieff, Tomey or Todd.
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I've only ever heard Wheeling used for Wheeling Peachblow. In Glass A to Z there's a separate listing for "Wheeling Peachblow," which Hobbs, Brockunier started making "shortly after" 1883. I don't know how long it was made, but you may be right about it spanning name changes, since Hobbs, Brockunier became J.H. Hobbs Glass Co. in 1888 (not mentioned in Ivo's book) before being taken over by US Glass Co. in 1891. I think that Wheeling Peachblow was probably one of those names that was used by someone at some point and just caught on. At any rate I doubt the time frame for most objects can be narrowed down well enough to call those that spanned the change "Wheeling" and those that didn't "Hobbs, Brockunier."
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I talked to Tom Bredehoft, who wrote a book about Hobbs, Brockunier. His reply:
Wheeling Peachblow. In the following paragraph when I say Hobbs, I mean Hobbs, Brockunier & Co. Hobbs made a color they called Coral starting in the late fall of 1885. It was Amberina cased over opal. In March, 1886 the Morgan Vase was sold at auction for $18,000 and Hobbs started frosting and wholesaling these vases to retail for $1.00 each. They called the frosted Coral Peachblow. I do not know who started calling it Wheeling Peachblow. It’s at best redundant. Other companies made similar colors, notably Phœnix, who made a whole range of color shaded to clear cased over opal. However, Phœnix’s version was not struck, but partially cased. A ruby example of this would be called Wheeling Drape. See Shuman page 126, lower left. Yes, it’s miss identified there. Only Hobbs, Brockunier made their Peachblow, its successor, Hobbs Glass Co. did not make it.
Hobbs also did not make the brides bowl under discussion. While Hobbs, or rather Leighton had a patent on a mechanical crimp, most of their crimps are pretty basic.
Phoenix is a company I lately realized was a good candidate for the bride's bowl, but I didn't know enough about them to suggest it. There's a photo in Shuman showing some rose bowls with enamel work very similar to that on this piece (labelled in the caption Consolidated, but who knows it that's right?!). I had noticed that the Wheeling Drape pitcher Tom mentioned has coloration fairly close to that of the bowl, and the liner seems more similar than the Hobbs, Brockunier one. I'm glad he told me about it being mislabelled because it didn't seem to fit with the Hobbs peach blow examples.
I don't have any references for Phoenix or Consolidated...anyone else?
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Looking through PK I found this catalog http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/archiv/pdf/pk-2007-3w-05-mb-markhbeinn-1927-leuchten.pdf (http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/archiv/pdf/pk-2007-3w-05-mb-markhbeinn-1927-leuchten.pdf) and it has a shade in it, pictured, that reminded me of this bowl. I just thought I would share the "look alike".
Mod: Pic removed, copyright violation. Please follow the link for picture - p. 6, fourth row, second from left.