Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => France => Topic started by: Ivo on June 08, 2008, 10:06:35 AM
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Amberina vase in quite seedy glass, optically ribbed, polished pontil, rim folded inward. Height 19cm = 7.1/2".
S&W - Rindskopf - Baccarat or other?
All hunches & thoughts welcome!
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Hi Ivo,
I doubt S & W. Could Blenko be another possibility?
Nigel
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No way Blenko, it is a/ far too well made (heavy quality, inward folded rim!) and b/ Blenko is totally absent in this country. Current thought is France... will take it for a line-up of usual suspects shortly.
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I am now fairly certain the item was made by Legras around 1900.
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The chances of finding Blenko anywhere in Europe - and that expressly includes the UK - are very slim. In 20 years I have seen one (1) amberina Blenko item turn up - and it is nothing like the questioned vase, not in size, not in finish, not in colour and not in general appearance. I did turn it upside down for a good look & feel ;) ;).
As for the attribution, Patricia (of bulb glass fame) managed to turn up a page from the 1897 Vilmorin catalogue where this vase is depicted as model "Parisien". The enameling of the 1897 version makes Legras the most likely maker. The vase was offered in 1902 in an undecorated amberina version - so the time frame is set. There is no information if the undecorated version was made by Legras as well, but it is quite likely. Vilmorin switched between suppliers as needed, so there is a slight possibility that Baccarat (who are known to use the Amberina technique around that time) are the maker. But there is no doubt that Vilmorin (seeds, gardening supplies, bulb vases, decoration) are the distributor.
I figured it was more informatrion than you'd care to have, and so I used the short version.
sorry for the inconvenience.
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Where the vase is concerned, it's definitely French.
Within our bulb vase club we have all the Vilmorin catalogues dating back to 1860 and so we can follow exactly when and how this vase was offered, first enamelled, then amberina, then plain with cotes venetiennes (yes Frank, here we go again), etc. till 1931.
Which factory made it, a bulb catalogue never mentions but as the enamelled ones are offered by Legras specialists on the big French fairs and when you study the flower enamelling on their other vases, there is no doubt who made it. So it's likely they continued with the amberina and plain ones as well.
Vilmorin offered 48 different models of hyacinth vases between 1860 and 1940 which gives us a lot of study material. And when you find one with a Baccarat sticker on it as we did last year, the whole club is up in arms! All I can say is that one bulbvase collector out there is going te be very happy to add Ivo's unusual vase to his collection.
My glass knowledge might be very limited (but with Ivo living around the corner, that's alright) but I do know my hyacinth vases.
Patricia
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Interesting that this form is a bulb vase, I assumed that is was just a vase at first.
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Seems to be a very broad distinction for spread top vases... plus of course the 2 finger test as Patricia once mentioned. Caithness versions (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?keyword=bulb+vase&Search=Search&Itemid=51&option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse).
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So did we Chiristine, so did we. But once it shows up in a garden catalogue between 10 other bulb vases which head reads Bulb Vases, it's fate is sealed forever. The French (and other countries as well) have more debatable ones in our (Dutch) opinion. Imagine the discussions on our club meetings when the bulb growers get involved as well.....
That leads straight to your Scottish vases Frank, if you read the page well it says posy vases and that's exactly what they are. A bulb would fall through and in my opinion they should call them bulbous vases (as in shaped like a bulb but not necessarily meant for bulbs).
But there even Ivo is still learning! And as he now has the page of this so often quoted catalogue may be he can somehow get it here on display.
Patricia
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pièce de gâteau!
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if you read the page well it says posy vases and that's exactly what they are.
Actually, that text refers to the range (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?keyword=ART+DECO+Collection&Search=Search&Itemid=51&option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse) which also includes vases titled "Posy" but those particular shapes are called "Bulb" vases and with UK consumer law/trade descriptions etc. they would need to be fit for that purpose. Unfortunately, Caithness chose not to list the sizes. So one has to assume that they would be effective as bulb vases and sized appropriately. But thanks for making me read the text I had a couple of typos there, now corrected.
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the shape looks similar, but I don't see it as being a unique shape type. it looks like a very common shape type. the thing about this vase that makes it very hard for me to think it's old and French is that the amberina colouring is all wrong for turn of the century. It does match colours that were in common use in the mid century though.
(btw, no animosity from me. Just stating an opinion :) )
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Two vases from the extensive Johansson collection in Berlin. The one on the left is depicted in the 1897 Vilmorin catalogue and was made by Legras; the one on the right is from the same mould. Height, weight and diameter are identical. Obviously the colours are different; the first one was made, cooled, enameled, fused, annealed and then struck at the glory hole. The second was made, annealed and struck - so less temperature change. The final "strike" operation in which the colour changes from transparent amber to dark red is difficult to control, hence the colour gradient varies per piece.
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Four bulb vases circa 1910 from the collection of Museum The Black Tulip in Lisse. The triangular one is by Baccarat.