Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Della on July 07, 2008, 09:07:04 PM

Title: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 07, 2008, 09:07:04 PM

Hi all,

Whilst staying with Anne (yobunny) this last week, and doing lots of glass hunting  ;D I came accross the attached ashtray. Both Anne and myself have tried to find out more about it, but I (we) are a little confused. We thought that we had found out that it was commemorate the disbanding of the British 8th Army, but what is written on the ashtray confilcts with the very little information that we can find online.
Anne found a newspaper cutting which quotes: 3,000 miles in 30 months. The ashtray states: 30,000 miles in 30 months.
My question is, which is correct, the ashtray or the newspaper?  :huh: Or am I totally on the wrong track? (nothing unusual  :-[ )

(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/thumb_IMG_5463_1.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10345)
Click to enlarge.

TIA
Della
x

Wasn't sure where to post this, so chose cafe. If it is in the wrong place, can a mod please move it accordingly?
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Sklounion on July 08, 2008, 04:47:39 AM
Hi Della,
You can ask in the town next door  ;D
http://www.eavm.co.uk/
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 08, 2008, 05:12:03 PM

Thanks, Marcus  :kissy:

Will drop them a line.  ;)
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Adam on July 08, 2008, 09:18:21 PM
Della - The 8th army was in North Africa, driving Rommel back westward from Egypt.  I'm not sure how far they went or if it was as far as 3000 miles.  If it had been 30,000 they would have run into themselves from behind, having come around the world!

Adam D.
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 08, 2008, 11:22:50 PM

Thanks, Adam  ;D
I have emailed my question using a link provided on the site that Marcus linked to. I will keep you all updated, as and when!  :angel:

Della
xx
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Sklounion on July 08, 2008, 11:39:03 PM
Hi,
Where the mileage came from, as Della and I discussed earlier, it must include shipping from the UK, via Cape Town, to Cairo.
Whatever, the 8th Army achievements are to be admired, not least, the Polish brigade who so valiantly fought and won the Battle of Monte Cassino, where so many others had failed.
For us, our freedom, to them, our eternal respect and thanks...
Marcus
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Anne on July 08, 2008, 11:47:49 PM
Adam, that's exactly the conclusion we came to as well - or as Marcus said, they went via the scenic route!  ;D

Marcus, hear hear.  :clap:
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 09, 2008, 06:40:38 AM
The other option is division miles 3,000 each for 10 divisions
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Bernard C on July 09, 2008, 06:48:09 AM
Della — I take it that your link to the GlassGallery thumbnail is legitimate.

As you might expect, I've been taking a close look at your picture.   Please would you let me have some dimensions.   I would like the overall diameter, the height and width of a "0", and the height of a "m".   Please be as accurate as possible in whatever system suits you, imperial or metric.

And, just in case, here's a simple way to code a fraction in bbcode (bulletin board code), suitable for use here:-

Code: [Select]
Integer[sup]numerator[/sup]/[size=7pt]denominator[/size]
2[sup]7[/sup]/[size=7pt]32[/size]

Which produces:-
   Integernumerator/denominator
   27/32

... and for completeness see 30. Fractions Made With HTML on Bob's Did You Know? page (http://www.bulls2.com/indexb/didyouknow.html), for use in web pages, but don't try to use it here!

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 09, 2008, 08:14:37 AM
Hi Bernard,

I am not sure what you mean about the link to Glass Gallery thumbnail being legitimate?
It is my ashtray and my photo and embedded in the post as I originally posted in cafe, where there are no attach options for photographs.  :)

The 0 is 5mm wide  & 10mm in height. The m is 6mm wide & 7mm in height.

Thank you.
 :D

Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Bernard C on July 09, 2008, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Della
...   I am not sure what you mean about the link to Glass Gallery thumbnail being legitimate?   ...

Anne says in her guide to GlassGallery here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery_help.html) to use the URL displayed below the GlassGallery image, in this case http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10345.   She goes on to explain that you must not use the dynamic URL shown at the top of the page, as it could change.   There is no mention of direct links to the images, and as I did not know whether these were fixed (legitimate link) or dynamic (illegitimate link), I have been avoiding them.

However, as you were at Anne's, and she has posted in this topic, she would have protested if your direct link had been dynamic, so I conclude that it is legitimate to link directly to GlassGallery images, and that their URLs are not dynamic.   Useful.

Back on Topic:

Thanks for the dimensions of the letters.   What is the overall diameter of the ashtray?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 09, 2008, 09:49:59 AM

The diameter of the astray is 115mm, Bernard.
With regard to the link, I did use the url under the picture and also the url to the thumbnail:

Della
xx
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Frank on July 09, 2008, 10:53:33 AM
I don't there is any 'legitimacy' relating to which link you use, but as each user sets the sort sequence to their own preference using the dynamic link gives you the image that is in position x from the start of the display sequence. i.e. if Della sorts by date and I sort by title, I will not see the image intended. Whereas the fixed link (or absolute) is the record number within the database. In most cases displaying a thumbnail linked to the original site where the full size image is located would not infringe most copyright conditions regardless of whose image it is.
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Anne on July 09, 2008, 03:10:13 PM
Bernard, Della's method of linking is fine. It works as the thumbnail is linked to the absolute url for the big image here: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10345

In most cases displaying a thumbnail linked to the original site where the full size image is located would not infringe most copyright conditions regardless of whose image it is.

Frank I'm not at all sure this is correct, as to display a thumbnail you are using the original copyright image.





Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: RAY on July 15, 2008, 11:58:06 AM
something i know a bit about, in 1945 the 8th Army was in Italy, the Egypt push ended in 1943, there was 13 units that went through the 8th army, been though all of my books and can't seem to find any relevance date corresponding to the date on the ashtray , but the date could be a US date so it would be 7th June 1945 and it could relate to the 8th US army, but you have to think that WW2 in Europe ended On 8 May 1945, that's why i think it could be something to do with the US, as the war in the Far East was still going on until 15th August 1945 and Japan formally surrenders on 2nd September 1945
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Sklounion on July 15, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
Hi,
Ray, is the US 8th Army possible, given that the unit only took to combat duties on the 10th of June 1944. The period of time they were on active service before acting as part of the forces occupying Japan was little over 14 months.
I think the significance of the date may be that it is the date of the announcement to the troops of the disbandment of the British 8th Army. I would not know where to confirm this, but the official disbandment took place in September 1945.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: RAY on July 15, 2008, 02:05:27 PM
the US 8th army was activated on 10th Jan 1944, and don't forget there was an 8th army air force could be them as well
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 15, 2008, 02:13:55 PM
I can only come to the conclusion, wrongly, or rightly that the newspaper has missed out a 0, or the mould maker has added one too many.  :huh:

Thanks to Anne, this is the information I have. I have not had a reply to the email I sent through the link that Marcus kindly provided.

Quote from: ”Field Marshal Alexander - Times Digital archive 30th July 1945”
No army in this war, and probably ever before, has advanced so far in so short a time and fought as many battles, every one of which was a victory, from Al Alamein to Austria – 3,000 miles in 30 months

Quote from: ”Field Marshal Montgomery – Times Digital archive 30th July 1945”
The immortal march of the Eighth Army from the gates of Cairo along the North African shores to Tunisia, through Sicily and through Italy

Hmmmm.......... where is the scratching your head smilie when you want one?
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: RAY on July 15, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
i think the Times Digital archive is a little wrong :spls:
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Carolyn Preston on July 16, 2008, 12:22:46 AM
You might want to try the National Archives or the War Museum for more information.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Anne on July 16, 2008, 12:54:20 AM
Just for anyone who doesn't know, the TDA consists of scans of the actual newspaper from the dates given, not transcripts or summaries, so that is just as it was reported at the time. Of course the reporter could have got it wrong as Ray suggests....  hence our puzzlement.
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 17, 2008, 10:46:54 PM

Ok, maybe a little late in the day, but does anyone have any ideas which factory this ashtray came from?

Still no word, or information from the email that I sent. Sorry, Marcus  :cry:

Della
xx
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Bernard C on July 18, 2008, 05:40:34 AM
Della — at some risk of rekindling passions caused by my poor choice of a word earlier in this topic, here goes:-

I believe that Wood Bros of Barnlsey is a strong possibility, for three reasons:-

1. As manufacturers of laboratory glassware, they were probably in a better situation to cut the mould and produce this souvenir in 1945 than most pressed glass factories, many involved in quite different wartime production.

2. The style of the ashtray is typical of Wood Brothers pressed glass, judging by the few examples fully attributed.

3. From memory it looks as if the same set of punches was used for the lettering on this ashtray as for other attributed Wood Bros commemoratives and souvenirs.

I can't confirm the third reason until I unpack my glass in about three weeks time, after the house decorators have gone, and just before the Stourbridge fair.

I think the most likely reason for the scarcity of your ashtray is that it is an error that escaped being smashed.    I've never seen another, and I judge from the responses here that no-one else has.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Della on July 18, 2008, 06:47:44 AM

Thank you, Bernard  :D
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Bernard C on July 18, 2008, 08:27:57 AM
... and 4. It was not replaced as the error was not noticed until too late — possibly after shipping to Berlin for the celebrations!

B. C.  8)
Title: Re: Information on the British 8th Army, please.
Post by: Anne on July 18, 2008, 12:11:49 PM
Hi Bernard, we did find mention of another one exactly the same on another forum, but likewise mo-one had added more info to it, so unless Della somehow bought the one which this other person had, there could be two in existence. :)