Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Frank on July 13, 2008, 09:30:04 AM
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A visitor to SG sent me these pictures.
For comparisions.
1. Royal Brierley http://members.aol.com/estateartglass/ArtGlassForSale/ArtGlassRoyalRedBowl4.JPG
2. Unknown apparently identical on PKays album (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/pkay6/Vase-Un-known-CrackedEffectSurfaceD.jpg)
3. On ebay attributed to WMF (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250268290387)
4. On ebay good Monart example (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=32026710756)
5. Monart Cloisonné close up (http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Colimages/Colour018.jpg)
6. Caithness use of technique on SG (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=991&category_id=89&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=51)
Probably none of the above, so who else could it be...
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Size - might have a bearing?
Very neat base, punty has come off very cleanly, unless they used a gadget.
Can't work out whether the outside is silver leaf or a grey powder. Whichever it is, I suspect it was dipped in water to crackle and then blown out a bit while melting the cracks in.
Since nobody else has risked making a fool of themselves.....I'll jump in!
If it is British, I think I'd be inclined to follow up either with Iestyn Davies, or Paul Barcroft, or Malcolm Sutcliffe, but these are more inspired guesses than anything else and may not even be inspired! :)
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That outside is wild - looks sort of like opal (stone, that is).
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Frank — My first reaction was Royal Brierley because of the shape, colourway, and all over evenness of the cloisonné / crackle effect.
I would be reasonably happy to buy it and sell it as probably RB.
It doesn't ring true to me for early Iestyn Davies, although Adam has probably seen more of his early work than me, as I have formed the impression that he liked to keep his styles quite distinct from those of Richard Golding at Okra, and this vase is too Okra-ish in both shape and finish.
Bernard C. 8)
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It was a strange coincidence that in one week 3 examples of this technique and colourway poped up. When I first saw the one sent to me yesterday the finish looked incredibly Monart and I thought it could be. The orange striking in the rim did disturb me though, as did the shape. But once I got the base shot knew it was not. As I had already been alerted to the WMF candidate and the Monart one on eBay the hunt was on, Ray came up with RB but the way the bases differ is to different. Several other RB examples I looked at were consistent. I have had it confirmed that WMF did make this style pre WW2 for a short period so perhaps the eBay example is correctly ID'd - but no certainty. I also knew Caithness had done some pieces in this style but the one example illustrated is again very different in execution if not style.
Shapewise I guess this is a fairly widely used style but I was surprised at the suggestion of studio - in support of that is the pkay matching shape/style example does not seem such a well executed example pointing to inconsistency and thus less likely factory - but that could also just be the photo.
So perhaps this one will take longer to resolve.
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Size of the main subject is 35cms (approx 14") tall and weighs close to 2.5kgs (5.5lbs)
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The owner has followed up leads, with gratitude:
Malcolm Sutcliffe Glass Gallery & Studio - Not one of his
Paul Barcroft - He did make some Cloisonné 15 years ago but not this one. He used more vibrant colours.
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Another one, claiming to be Lötz... :-\
http://cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7364120683
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I am probably way off here but in my search for craquele :) I came across the site for Jeff price
www.jeffpriceartglass.com
in the demonstration technique for crackle the bowl llink you have posted looks similar to one he is making in his demo and there is an example of a vase which has a similar effect to the vase you have posted Bernard although very different shape/style in my eyes.
m
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No you are not way off M, same technique.
Can't work out whether the outside is silver leaf or a grey powder. Whichever it is, I suspect it was dipped in water to crackle and then blown out a bit while melting the cracks in.
Neither Adam, it is white with added lustre, in the early days the lustre just occurred due to the impurities in their producer gas, once they stopped making their own gas they had to use a more conventional technique for the lustre.
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:-[ of course I meant Frank not Bernard :)
m
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Just happened on another similar example of this sort of decoration, this one by Durand:
http://www.wheatonarts.org/museumamericanglass/exhibitions/pastexhibits/1988distinctivelydurand/photoalbum/photoalbum_photo_view?b_start:int=2
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Remarkable examples, would love to see closer details.
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Was looking for Kny stuff, and happened on this Monart Cloisonne example, second on the page:
http://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/cataloguepast.aspx?SaleID=115
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I was looking for something else and came across this thread again.
Frank this is a complete longshot but I don't suppose this could have come from Dartington could it?
I'm thinking of the Alchemy range they did and wondering if there were others, but not that particular range? The things that may preclude it could be a) size, this one seems a lot larger than the Alchemy vase I had or I have seen mentioned B) the rim, If I recall correctly the Alchemy rims are cut and polished and c) the base.....ok that's a lot of differences ;D but I am still wondering whether it could be?
m
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When I looked at this again, years later, I was struck by how much the network of red looks like it was painted - the lines look like brush strokes. Now, I know that is probably not what it is - the crackle thing makes sense, but...what if? What if a resist was painted on, then the rest enameled, then fired? The thing that bothers me is the uniformity of the line thickness. It does change a little, but compared to other examples it seems pretty uniform. The ends of lines are wide and often look like brush strokes. Just an idea. EDIT: never mind, that's a silly idea.
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I've not seen this thread before. :hi:
I would completely rule out RB. Far, far too thick and lumpy.
WMF gets my vote.
I have a white crackled piece, (over clear glass, which at one point in time had had a lining of silver metal) and the white stuff has this pearly sheen.
It's also a very WMF sort of shape.
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Dartington Alchemy not a chance.
Shape is just a variation on one of the oldest styles of vase!
WMF does seem to be the only candidate not eliminated.
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(memory failed completely at recalling a third item :pb: )
Agreed, absolutely NOT Dartington Alchemy, Frank. Not whatsoever, nohow!
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I wasn't suggesting it was from the Alchemy range :sun: I was asking whether or not someone at Dartington could have made this vase during the time they were producing the ranges for the Studio type stuff or using outside designers.
As a matter of interest what are the reasons for it absolutely not being by Dartington? Rachael Woodman and Neil Wilkin both worked at Dartington (I'm not suggesting it was made by them at all, just using them as an example) as did other glass artists I believe. My thoughts were triggered by aa's suggestion of a possible contemporary maker who might have made this. Does the glass itself in some way preclude it being a more contemporary piece?
m
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To my knowledge (which is open to change in the light of any evidence emerging) the ranges produced by Dartington studio were very well-defined rather than anything "experimental going along those lines", m -
(And I know you would not confuse or conflate this Cloissonne-like piece for a bit of Alchemy - I can see your reasoning!).
I was paying a lot of attention to the Studio stuff at the time - what I gathered from the staff was that they were producing each range (possibly just one range at a time) for a fairly short period of time. I had 2 Alchemy pieces, then I saw one of the gold foiled Italianate pieces but when I wanted to buy one I had to get it specially made for me, Alchemy was no longer available by them (I'd have liked more) and I was told the next things they would be doing would be the swirled and frilly ruby (using real gold) stuff...... I have no interest in frilly, but kept an eye open for anything that might follw that. Nothing did.
The cased Cloissonne-type plates and vases were issued around the same time, I think, as the Alchemy.
I found both of these designs in the same (luxury new goods) shop at the same time.
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The subject of the thread is well made and unlikely to be a one-off. The technique can be described as traditional so I would think in terms of Artisan not Artist.
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thank you both. I get that :sun: I have a small correction to make on my post above just for future reference as info on Dartington seems quite convoluted and I don't want to add to it. Rachael Woodman and Neil Wilkin both worked at Dartington Crystal according to the book Contemporary British Glass produced by the Crafts Council. It says Neil worked at an independent studio within the museum complex. It says Rachael was a designer for Dartington Crystal.
My only other thought then on this vase is could it have been made by Kralik? They made crackle, cased, uncased (open) and in 'variegated' colours. The size fits I think as I believe they did make some large pieces. The pontil mark looks odd though. However, I have had a quick search but can't find a reference...as I said, just a possible theory?
m
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but more searching brought up this link
for you to peruse.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/27039-kralik-crackle-shades-rough-and-soft?in=user
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Good link and yes same technique, but a world away in execution, so still no certainty... but at least Kralik and probably all Bohemia are definitely off the hook ;D
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Just had a hunch,,, while not letting WMF off the hook, but date-wise I am thinking 70s 90s and country-wiise France...