Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on August 24, 2005, 03:34:34 AM
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My niece Liz, who lives in New Invention (prefabricated metal chimneys for those puzzled by the unusual placename) in the Black Country, saved me a two-page article from the Express & Star, February 17, 2005, by Carl Chinn, a local historian, mainly on the subject of the Black Country's contribution to the building of the Crystal Palace in Hyde Park for the 1851 Great Exhibition.
Much is on Chance Brothers and the glass they made for the Crystal Palace in their Glass and Lighthouse Works at Smethwick. Illustrations include two views of the works and a portrait of James Chance.
The author cites Chance Brothers & Co. Limited, 100 years of British Glass Making 1825–1924, Smethwick and Glasgow, Chance Brothers & Co., 1924. This might be available via interlibrary loan through any UK public library, and Broadfield House probably have a copy in their library.
In a separate box is a note about the new Smethwick Heritage Centre, located on the High Street next to the Council House, and opened September 2004. Displays include "a multitude of glassware manufactured at Chance Brothers glassworks". Opening times are April to October Wednesday to Saturday 10 to 4, November to March Thursday to Saturday 10 to 3. A review of this display would be appreciated.
Bernard C. 8)
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Bernard,
Welcome back, indeed and many thanks for this info.
Smethwick is just a few miles from where I live so I'd be rather embarrased if I couldn't make this! Not sure whether I have the expertise to review the display, but I'll take my camera anyway.
The Heritage Centre might also include Ruskin pottery perhaps, so another reason to have a look round. I'll have a poke around and see if I can find more local info. and will post here as necessary.
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Carl Chinn, a local historian
Bernard, I meant to say that Carl is a much published author on Birmingham and the Black Country history. He's actually a professor at Birmingham University (only 2 miles from me) and has a very disarming Brummie accent - Brummie and proud of it, or something like that. But I reckon privately he speaks "vaery porsh" :lol:
If there's too much information on this subject I may just create a web page to cover the exhibition.
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http://www.smethwick-heritage.co.uk/
Includes a little mention on "Chances Glassware" (sic)
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=402281&y=288208&z=0&sv=B66+3NJ&st=2&pc=B66+3NJ&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf
Spot the orange arrow for location. Use buttons to zoom in/out
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As the Heritage Centre is right next to the Council House, there is a possibility it is sponsored or run by the council themselves. I'll let you know.
Edit: As it's run by a Trust, donations would obviously be gratefully received. I might also consider joining as a member:
http://www.smethwick-heritage.co.uk/canyou.asp
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David? If there's a book about Chance glass, or a leaflet or anything...lol....can you get it for me, and I'll pay you afterwards please? Thanks. :o)
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Hi Max,
No problem, I'll get whatever literature there is, but I'd be interested in a book myself as I have an unusual serviette holder in the Fiesta pattern. Never seen one before but I have a grudging respect for this glass even if it was cheaply mass-produced.
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Hi All
The author cites Chance Brothers & Co. Limited, 100 years of British Glass Making 1825–1924, Smethwick and Glasgow, Chance Brothers & Co., 1924. This might be available via interlibrary loan through any UK public library, and Broadfield House probably have a copy in their library.
Bernard C. 8)
If you cannot get this through inter-library loan, then there is a copy in the V&A art library.
Regards
Chris
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Hello, a newbie to this forum. I am posting a photo (I hope) of what I believe is a chance glass dish and matching tray. Haven't seen one in this colourway before or with the intaglio design. But I understand that Geoffrey Baxter for his degree show did some intaglio designs for Chance.Could this be one of them? If not any other info would be appreciated.
http://tinypic.com/b53391.jpg
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:D:D:D
Hello and Welcome!
I am positive that your handkerchief vase and tray are definitely Chance, and the more unusual top of the range stuff too! Congratulations! :D
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Thanks Sue. Yes, this one is a "cut above" the usual handkerchief vases, but it's the intaglio pattern I'm most keen to know about. ... to try and find out if it is one of the designs by Geoffrey Baxter before he went to Whitefriars.I think it is possibly not as it is a bit too "classic" for his style, but..you never know!!
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I saw this on the WF.com board...I think it's fascinating - I'd love to see it in the flesh. :)
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:D
Miller's Collectables 2005 (p.306) shows an intaglio cut handkerchief vase, ruby flashed, horizontal cuts, 7" tall, describing it as rare and '60's. It is priced at £120-140, compared to ordinary vases that size priced, for a '50's one with red spots, £70-80; for an orange stripey '60's one, £80-90.
These do not ever seem to reach the heady heights of the prices quoted by Miller.
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Sue, I think the Miller's prices can be taken with a pinch of salt, but this would explain why the prices for them have been so high recently – I sold a white one a few weeks ago with slight nibble on the rim for £22, whereas they were previously £5-10.
But like many collectable pieces, these can also be subject to trends; I remember watching the Murano end-of-day fishes suddenly reaching stupid prices (£70 upwards) last year, before they went back lower than the market price had been previously dictating. Even now they can picked up for less than £10. I think this wild fluctuation was entirely due to a single TV programme pricing them up...
These trends also seem to be far more shorter-lived (often just a matter of months) now that eBay dominates the market.
Regarding the 'intaglio' effect, I would have thought all the patterned ones could be called this couldn't they, due to the process used?
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:D
Hello David, The intaglio ones are actually cut, through a layer of coloured glass to the clear. The other ones are transfer printed. They're quite, quite different. :D
I was just using Miller to give an example of a comparison of the intaglio and the transfer printed ones, as it was the only place I could find one. It did give dates, though. The intaglio piece they show is stated to be '60's, while some transfer printed ones are described as '50's.
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I'm still working from the 2004 book! :oops:
However, I always thought intaglio was a printing process but I can see why the similarity in definition occured. It actually means 'to carve' in Italian... so (in a Brummie acent) "I'll get me coat" *
* Fast Show c.2000
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Hi all, thanks for the debate. It is definitely intaglio, which according to my Glass Fact file by Ivo, is "a decoration cut below the glass surface." The one I illustrated has a bevelled clear glass edge which then leads into the white outer layer(kind of cased) and the pattern is cut through the white to show the clear below. It is in pristine, mint, fab condition (as is the tray) and if I decide to sell it on e-bay, it'll have a high reserve. If it's at a fair, well, who knows? I sold a black and white pop art small handkerchief vase for over £50 not long ago(transfer printed), and this white intaglio one is 8" high and 7" wide approx. The transfer printed ones, although pretty and quirky, and I have a lot and love them to bits,are by comparison to this white one quite inferior. I agree that Miller's price guides are to be taken with a large packet of salt, and these books ARE described as "guides" , however a unique and special item will always find its right level unless there's a total world wide depression, God forbid!! Anyway, if anyone goes to the Smethwick venue and is able to glean some interesting chance information, hopefully it will appear here! Byeee
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If this intaglio set was mine, I wouldn't sell it right now, unless it was imperative. IMHO this is the sort of item that will be appreciating enormously soon. Frankly, I'd wait and acheive a better price later! :wink: :D
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I sold a black and white pop art small handkerchief vase for over £50 not long ago(transfer printed)
That's an excellent price! I would just like to point out that mine was also transfer-printed as well and not intaglio: a simple white check design...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/chance-white.jpg
Not sure whether you'd be right about waiting, though Max. The trends in some collecting areas are so rapid these days it's often best to seize the moment. However, time will tell and Chance (Pilkington) glass may well become a revelation in collecting terms.
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Just posted a review on my visit:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2347.0.html
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Emmi said:
The trends in some collecting areas are so rapid these days it's often best to seize the moment.
You're quite right of course!
I just thought with this particular item though, given it's provenance, it might be a 'keeper'. (See my shed for all the revolting 'keepers' I've been wrong about though :wink: :lol: )
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Emmi said: The trends in some collecting areas are so rapid these days it's often best to seize the moment.
You're quite right of course!
I just thought with this particular item though, given it's provenance, it might be a 'keeper'. (See my shed for all the revolting 'keepers' I've been wrong about though :wink: :lol: )
Horses for Courses, Max: the trend could be on an upper or a downer. Personally I'd keep it though :wink:
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Follow up http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2347.0.html
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David — Nice to see the origins of all this still here at the start of this topic. Does Carl Chinn know what he inadvertantly started? I must update Liz.
Bernard C. 8)
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I have since contacted him and he's been very supportive - even offered use of his own article on Crystal Palace that had some detail to support my own meanderings.
He's also invited me onto his radio show when the book's launched! :shock: :oops:
Look what you started! :wink:
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A fascinating reread on the basis of current knowledge - how things change. We can all blame Bernard for the Chance glass GMB epidemic :lol: :lol:
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So not my fault after all! :lol:
Actually, after initial reservations I am rather enjoying this research and find it quite stimulating. The amount of data I now have is also quite alarming - several Gigabytes... :shock:
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... He's also invited me onto his radio show when the book's launched! ...
David — I hope you haven't forgotten Carl Chinn's offer of free local publicity. Local sales could well be your best market for the book, so a well-publicised launch at the Smethwick Heritage Centre is important. And I am sure that the Express & Star would be prepared to publicise what their piece initiated. All three events should be carefully planned.
It looks as if I am committed to two copies, one (with an appropriate inscription) for my niece Liz, who seems to have unwittingly started all this, and an initial copy for me. Now I know you really want us to pay by some hi-tech process, but I would prefer to pay by a simple cheque. Is this possible? Please email me with details. ... and would I have to pay extra for a possibly unique unsigned copy?
Bernard C. 8)
ps — David, just look at the total number of views of this topic. Amazing!
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Thanks Bernard, I'll e-mail privately but going to the Cortex Design (http://www.cortex-design.co.uk) site gives full details on payment methods - and cheque is fine as I will not be holding these for clearance with Christmas approaching fast.
I have also posted in the Marketplace (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8984.0.html) with details
Just let me know if you want books signed or not :)