Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Frank on September 08, 2008, 12:21:39 PM
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Recently acquired for digitisation in the Glass Study, I am contacting Rakow to confirm date attribution of their copy but can anyone confirm if these are likely to be 1910?
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A couple more examples that are why I do not think 1910 can be right...
Does anyone know a good on-line resource for Salviati?
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Hi Frank i believe the V&A picture library has a lot of early Salviati info .
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They have 34 lots mostly date 1866, 1868, 1868-1880 a couple of circas and 1900-20. Several close matches which shows they were continuing designs for some 40 years or the V&A had dubious dating. Which is not surprising on my past experiences with them... no glass specialist since Charleston, and mostly handle by ceramics dept.
So no advance there.
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Hi Frank i believe the V&A picture library has a lot of early Salviati info .
(V&A) = Victoria and Albert Museum: http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/glass/index.html
Just in case others (like me, once... :spls:) did not know what V&A meant.......Across the pond (ocean) by so many miles ;)
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The only close matches to any of the pieces I have so far found on line either date as mid 19th, c 1888 or early. ::)
Very close is this one on Svazzo's site http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/790930/item790930store.html#item
As I found none of the figurines, animals I would assume that these are being attributed to Bimini.
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Frank,
on the off chance, a couple of years ago I gave my brother an Ally Pally brochure of about that time, at least some where around there.
It's filled with the most intricate designs.
A huge book, all the blanks of the various entries are in it on plates I think, (i'm not sure).
Hard to imagine a present day brochure like that.
He's going to let me know if there are any Venetian/Murano entry's.
Fingers crossed. ^-^
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Frank, the best online source I know for Salviati is Rosella Junck's new entry pages. The link is http://glass-in-venice.atspace.com/newentries/index.html. The links have pictures and information on many Venetian glass pieces, mostly 19th Century. (The home page link is http://www.rossellajunck.it/venice_murano_glass/gal.asp?lingua=uk for anyone interested in looking at more pictures.)
There seems to be a dirth of information on Salviati between 1905-1920. I have seen filigree works done by them and maybe reproductions of their earlier works. But I don't know of any good source -- either online or offline -- for them after the turn of the century. If you find anything, please let us know.
Anita
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Hi Anita,
Good link and again some near matches for some of 'traditional' designs but nothing to match the apparently 1920s designs. I shall contact them. Rakow are also trying to establish a date here as they had it estimated at 1910 but with no record of why that attribution. The seller dated it to pre 1900 and had another that was glassware designs.
The catalogue is probably printed by collotype process which does not help as that was available from mid 19th century.
The dancing figure was approx 35cm (13½") high, the 176 (middle bowl below) was 27cm (10½") diameter.
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There is another site you can check out. It is http://www.gardnerandbarr.com/. Your pieces are not pictured there, but one of the site owners, Sheldon Barr, is one of the leading experts on Salviati. He wrote the popular (and helpful!) book Venetian Glass, Confections in Glass. He helped one of our members here with vase identification. If you cannot find an answer elsewhere, he may be able to put a date on your glass. His contact info is on his site, so I won't put it here.
Anita
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There appears to have been a new company established c1921 by Silvio Salviati - possibly explaining some of the anomalies that this one presents.
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The Italian connection came up with a good opinion Anita.
The first impression is that it is more a catalogue of the retail Salviati, so a place in which the glass made by different company.
I recognize in these drawing many items designed by Ercole Barovier and in my opinion the date is 1928-1935.
In this period the Salviati company was owned and directed by Maurizio Camerino, and no more Salviati people were involved with the company.
Once I get it on-line I will try and ID the makers involved.
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The Salviati companies are complicated. I no longer try to separate their 19th Century pieces from Barovier, since the Barovier brothers worked for, then bought the company. Salviati & C. becomes synomous with Artisti Barovier (scream!). I get most confused because of the parallel Salviati enterprises, Pauly, and CVM, (which many companies made glass for). I have to remind myself that the companies were in business to make money and not to make it easier for me to sort through. I've seen the same pieces listed as Salviati, Barovier, and CVM -- perhaps all true.
I am glad that Aldo Bova wrote you. At least you have a good idea of the time of the catalog. I had tried to turn your dancer into a Luciano Gaspari piece with its graceful lines. But the time was all wrong. I think we can safely say that the form is all wrong, too. My imagination was working overtime.
I read recently that Salviati closed, but I don't know if it is the truth. I knew the French had bought them several years ago, but it was the last I heard. I have not paid much attention to them recently. Their glass became too conventional for my taste.
Anita
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As more material gets digitised it will become a lot easier to sieve through the complexities of companies, this is part of what I working towards.
Salviati has likely just become another to be used for commodities, the modern way. Odd that collectors are now taking so much interest in designers whereas 20 years ago they were less revered. Although sometimes I think it goes to far with some individuals regarded almost as gods and other great ones languish forgotten and unknown. All largely dependant on the books that exist.
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Frank, nothing of any help in the catalog I mentioned,
I'm leaving the list of exhibitors in case any use to you for another time
Glass exhibitors are:
Brockwell,F.H. – London
Copeland & Co. – London
Defries & Sons – London
Dobson & Pearce - London
Green, J. – London
Imperial Manufactory – St. Petersburg
Maes, L. J. – Clichy-La-Garenne
Millar And Co. – Edinburgh
Naylor And Co. – London
Osler And Co. – Birmingham
Pellatt And Co. – London
Phillips, W And G – London
Storey And Son – London
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Is there any material on 'Millar And Co. – Edinburgh' in the catalogue please?
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I'm sure there is Frank, its a huge book (for a catalog )
I'll ask my brother if he can copy what's there.
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Frank, my brother Steve said
"There is a page of engraved glass from Messrs. John Millar and Co"
he will try and scan it tomorrow but, because of the age of the book it won't open flat.
in which case he will try and take a photo.
If that doesn't work, I'm staying with him in November for the glass collectors fair, he lives in Birmingham
, I'l take my camera up, its a better camera, maybe it'l help
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Super, if you can photograph each item separately they will go nicely on Scotland's Glass ;D
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Frank I think this is one of your figurines from the design on page 1 of this thread
It is dated c.1932
http://www.artvalue.com/auctionresult--barovier-ercole-barovier-toso-figurines-2-2212563.htm
Pair of the figurines on the bases -
Sold
Important Design, Session 1, Chicago, Tuesday, December 09, 2008
Lot 156
BAROVIER Ercole, Barovier & Toso, 1889-1974 (Italy)
Title : Figurines, (2)
Date : ca 1932
Category : Sculptures
Medium :
: A pair: Iridized clear and black glass
Estimate $20,000-30,000
m
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Brilliant find and a match, estimate gives an idea of why they do not appear often. c.1930s fits the estimated date too.