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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on October 04, 2008, 04:57:53 PM

Title: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Bernard C on October 04, 2008, 04:57:53 PM

I need good quality close-up photographs of early post-War Bagley Jetique with fired-on multicoloured floral spray transfer decoration for a little detective work I'm attempting.

You will see one example of this style on the Pontefract Museum Bagley reference site here (http://www.wakefieldmuseumcollections.org.uk/index.asp?page=item&filename=bagley.mdf&itemId=WAKGMP%20:%20P2001.197) — click on the image for an enlargement, sadly not quite detailed enough for me.

Note that most floral decoration was cold hand-painted, now sadly deteriorating badly as it washes off, as you will see if you browse this reference website (search it on "jetique").

Ideally ex-camera unoptimised, but lightly optimised might give me sufficient detail.

Please give me permission to use, not use, or extract from them as I wish, and how you would wish to be identified in a copyright notice, should anything come of this.

Please email them to me with the words "Bagley photographs" or something equally meaningful in the Subject line.   Note that my email system rejects blank subject lines as spam.

Grateful thanks.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne E.B. on October 05, 2008, 11:05:15 AM

Bernard, I have what I believe to be a Bagley Jetique 3-piece flower bowl set that you might like to see.  However, my computer has some compatability problems with Hotmail and I've been unable to contact you by email with the images.  Is there another way I can get them to you?  May be here or in the glass gallery?
 

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed ple
Post by: heartofglass on October 05, 2008, 01:04:08 PM

Hi Bernard,
I have a small Jetique vase, & it has a multicoloured floral transfer print design, it is also marked underneath with a Registration number for 1948 or 49. I can get a photo of it for you next week as I am on holidays at the moment & away from my glass.
Hope it will be of help.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Bernard C on October 05, 2008, 04:16:54 PM

Quote from: Anne E.B.

...   However, my computer has some compatability problems with Hotmail and I've been unable to contact you by email with the images.  Is there another way I can get them to you?  May be here or in the glass gallery?

Anne — Thanks.   It's the first time that I have come across any indication that my use of the old BTInternet / BTOpenworld ISP, now taken over by Yahoo!, causes problems at your end.   I wasn't aware of any restrictions on the size of incoming attached files.

An alternative approach might be to load them up into any web space that is available to you, either with full Internet access, or with restricted access, such as by password through a control system, like some photo albums.   Once I've downloaded them you can delete them.

Anne's glass gallery does have limitations on file sizes, but uses an efficient optimisation system that retains fine detail, like IrfanView.   So that route may be possible.

I will ask Anne's advice.

Marinka — Thanks, and watch this space next week in case you hit similar problems.   ... and thanks for not being another Anne!

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: KevinH on October 05, 2008, 05:05:26 PM

Just thinking on a sem-techy level ...

From the envelope icons, Bernard's email is btopenworld; Anne E. b.'s email is btinternet - it's basically the same thing. Hotmail is an entirely different thing - not sure why there should be a problem for Anne to send to Bernard.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Frank on October 05, 2008, 06:27:26 PM

Hotmail shrinks images

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Lustrousstone on October 05, 2008, 06:29:16 PM

It shouldn't do; the attachment limit is 10Mb

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne E.B. on October 05, 2008, 07:29:33 PM

Hopefully you will receive my email now Bernard :).  I haven't used the email link here on the GMB which for some reason ('puter numpty that I am ::)) was causing a problem.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne on October 05, 2008, 07:42:30 PM

I'm not sure where Hotmail is coming in if both Anne and Bernard are using BT services?  Most email services have a file attachment size limit (some as low as 2Mb, others as high as 20Mb).  There is a useful free file transfer service which Barry uses for larger files which could be the answer for you, http://www.yousendit.com/cms/liteaccount (they do a paid service as well but the free one works well - Barry uses it to send stuff to a chum in Bhopal.)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne E.B. on October 05, 2008, 08:05:12 PM

Sorry Anne, I threw a red herring there I think.  I seemed to be encountering a similar problem that I had previously experienced with Hotmail, and just assumed it was the same thing :-[ :-[ :-[  ::)  I did say I was a complete numpty ;D

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne on October 05, 2008, 09:29:48 PM

Ahhhh right, Anne, I see. You had me scratching my head for a while trying to figure out what BT had done with Hotmail (or vice versa!  ;D)  I suspect the problem is filesize of the attachments - I'm not sure what the BT limits are but many providers now limit attachments to 2Mb per email, which is not very helpful! If you sign up for a Googlemail account though you can send up to 20Mb of attachments - it's handy to have such an address purely for large emails. :)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed ple
Post by: heartofglass on October 06, 2008, 04:20:14 AM

My vase is actually identical to the one in the link that you provided, Bernard.
(I got in a charity shop last year for some trifling sum.)
I'll try my best to get a decent pic to you later next week.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Bernard C on October 06, 2008, 10:18:24 AM

Anne — I received your photographs yesterday as attachments to your email.   Thanks.   More below.   The total size was about 6.5Mb, so there appears to be no problem with old BTInternet / BTOpenworld users sending or receiving several ex-camera image files as attachments, and this probably applies equally to Yahoo! users.

Marinka — Yes, please, even if I have revealed my specific subject and initial conclusions, as a web page could well be the outcome, for which we will need the best quality of detail.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Bernard C on October 06, 2008, 11:56:27 AM

(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF2416.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF2416.jpg)		(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF2419.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF2419.jpg)
(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF2421.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF2421.jpg)		Bagley 3145 Bristol in Jetique with hand-painted floral decoration This three-piece posy set, dating from the early postwar period, was cold decorated by hand, and, I believe, just allowed to dry.   The decoration was not subsequently fired on to the glass.   Most examples have lost most or all of their decoration while being washed, and it is common practice for dealers to remove all of any surviving decoration, which can usually be done fairly easily on polished glass without damaging the underlying glass.   See this posy vase (http://www.wakefieldmuseumcollections.org.uk/index.asp?page=item&filename=bagley.mdf&itemId=WAKGMP%20:%20P2001.225) in the Pontefract Museum collection for a typical sad example. This example is a delight, and is without doubt the finest example of this hand-painted floral spray decoration I can recall seeing on Jetique or any other polished Bagley glass.   It is not without wear, and has suffered from occasional careful washing, but retains enough to be able to see the pattern properly and even to make out some individual brushstrokes. The girls who did this at the Bagley factory were paid just pennies. I've added it in here, although slightly off-topic, as it helps readers appreciate the difference between hand painted and transfer floral decoration. My warmest thanks to Anne E.B. for these excellent images.   The glassgallery link is here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-10899). Bernard C.  8)

Images Copyright © 2008 Anne E.B. and Bernard Cavalot

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed ple
Post by: heartofglass on October 06, 2008, 12:02:55 PM

What a difference the hand painted decoration makes from the transfer printed items...this is a really pretty item! (And this is not "my" type of glass either) It has a rather charming folk-art look.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Anne on October 06, 2008, 11:15:14 PM

This looks like a typical folk art style of painting, similar to canalware but also to American Toleware patterns (on tinware) or Eastern European Folk Art. Usually painted in a formulaic manner, so fairly simple to do (as is canalware). Very pretty, much nicer than transfers for sure, but not so hard-wearing as you've found out Bernard.

Was this actually done "in house" at Bagley or was it decorated externally in the same way as I buy blanks to decorate? I know Angela's Bagley Glass book refers to in-house decorating, and I recall you saying you met the lady who painted the polks dots on Bagley items, but is there actual proof that the cold painting as here was done in house as well?

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Frank on October 07, 2008, 08:25:45 AM

And how would one distinguish a hand-painted transfer? I do not know to what extent it was used - it is a process that lends itself to, lower cost, out-source to home-workers etc. more readily than decorating the object. The individuality of designs and brush strokes being kept.

It should not be assumed that all transfers were fired either. It is not unusual to find cold transfers used on US glass in particular. Obviously not firing is cheaper and for mass market that would be considered sufficient reason. The caveat "Permanently Fired" as appears on Pirelli labels provides a qualitative distinction that implies that some of the public would recognise it and be willing to pay a little more. Pirelli had their sales outlet in up-market Sloane St., although I do not think it was a retail operation there.

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed please
Post by: Bernard C on October 07, 2008, 10:12:24 AM

Anne — Thanks for your expert contribution.   Yes, I did have the priviledge of meeting the Bagley polka dot lady, just the once, when I was busy, at a fair in Doncaster many years ago.   I recall this tiny elderly lady, quite beautiful, admiring all my Bagley glass, and reluctantly admitting who she was after I promised not to laugh.   It was like meeting royalty.   How can you laugh at someone whose original artwork is owned and admired by more people than any other glass artist on this planet, living or dead?   All painted by eye with no marking up.   I can't recall her exact words, but she gave me the strong impression of a dedicated decorating team, herself and two or three girls, wholly within the Crystal Glass Co. division of the Bagley works, working on the pressed glass that interests many of us today, and quite distinct from any decorating department of the main bottle works.

Frank — I don't know, but it all sounds rather complicated.  :spls:

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Bagley Jetique fired-on floral spray transfer decoration — photos needed ple
Post by: Bernard C on December 15, 2008, 04:36:39 PM

Quote from: heartofglass

My vase is actually identical to the one in the link   ...   I'll try my best to get a decent pic to you later next week.

Marinka — It's now two months on, and, to tell you the truth, I had temporarily forgotten about it.   Did you take those photographs?   If you sent them to me they did not arrive in my Inbox.   I would be most grateful for them.   See my notes at the start of this topic.

If you are having difficulties with the photographs, don't worry, as I can proceed without.   It's just that having copyright control gives me more flexibility, and that Pontefract Museum image is rather small.

Warmest regards,

Bernard C.  8)