Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: azelismia on October 12, 2008, 02:15:08 AM
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This piece may or may not be sick. I am working on cleaning it now. It was absolutely filthy when I got it. There are two spots with very old tape residue. This piece was a devil to get clean pics of. Some of the cutting is very deep and some of it is not. the back of it has engraved or etched leaves and grapes and the rim has the same, but the archer and dog seem to be cut far more deeply than that. no markings that I could find. anyone have any ideas of origin on this one? it's about 15 inches tall. because of how hard this was to photograph, I found the best way to show the detail was to take pictures from teh backside of the vase so some of the pics will be magnified in what the archer really looks like. the pics are of course clickable. the pics are pretty huge.
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/archerwdog.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_archerwdog.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/archerwdog.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020479.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020479.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020516.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020516.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020518.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020518.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020520.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020520.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020522.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020522.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020521.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020521.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020517.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020517.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020515.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020515.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020514.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020514.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020513.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020513.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020510.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020510.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020500.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020500.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020463.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020494.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020494.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020493.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020493.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020482.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020482.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020477.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020477.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020475.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020475.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020474.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020474.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/th_P1020473.jpg) (http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/P1020473.jpg)
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Presumably Apollo.
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rather diana, i´d say. as goddess of hunting she´s
usually shown with bow and dog.
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I thought that at first too, but think it is male. Apollo was a bowman and Diana's twin.
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it looks like female dressing and hair-do to me, though her
secondary sexual characteristics are not too much accented.
apollo would wear some kind of breast-shield rather than
anything waisted, wouldn´t he? :huh:
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I was going under the assumption it was a male but the clothing does look female when you go back and look at the pictures of the mythos. I vote for Artemis ;)
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no opinions on who might have made this?
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France or Bohemia maybe.
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Wow, what a great piece! Where did you find it?
My vote is Diana/Artemis, definitely.
It's intaglio engraved. I don't see any etched areas, and would be surprised if there were any.
Czech/Bohemian is my guess. The Bohemians seem to have an affinity for mythological images in their engravings. The shape of the blank is right, too. Kind of reminds me of this tumbler, if only because of the subject matter:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330230350505
Is there water in it? Ordinarily I wouldn't expect much distortion or magnification, although taking close photos can have that effect.
I tried the rice trick for the first time a couple weeks ago, where you put a bit of water and some raw rice (and cleaner, if desired) in the glass and swirl it around vigorously. It worked surprisingly well. Maybe you've tried that already. Good luck getting it clean, and I hope it's not sick. It seems like Bohemian glass isn't as prone to crizzling as some others.
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yeah It's wet. I was trying to clean it. and noticed I had better luck getting the details on photo with water. I actually have this great product you should look for. it's a decanter and bottle washing kit from brushtech. it's got a funnel and steel balls. I got it when I was in the procurement dept at Sur La Table. it was a sample but we might have sold it. Pretty sure williams and sonoma would carry that too.
http://www.amazon.com/Decanter-Bottle-Washing-Steel-Balls/dp/B000RK1UYS/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1223837466&sr=1-17
I got this vase on ebay last week.
thanks for the correct terminology. telling the difference between various types of cutting on glass is difficult for me. I think Bohemia is probably a fair guess for this. the back side with the grapes has that look.
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yay, it's all dry now. completely sparkly and not sick!! it's a real stunner. what's the best method to photograph something like this?
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Ideally I suppose in a light tent, but I don't have one so I'll tell you how I do it very low-tech. Grey cuttings usually show up best against a dark background. I use black or dark-colored posterboard curved up against a wall. Then I light the piece from above and slightly behind. The lamp I use has a long handle and a shade, and I try to angle it so the shade lights the piece but leaves the background dark. I just discovered that some engraved pieces photograph very nicely when filled with water (right after you've gotten yours dry!). It tends to diffuse the light and avoid glare, at least in the pieces I tried it with. Here's one example:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=10903&fullsize=1without water
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=10943&fullsize=1 with water
Here's another two that show a little better how I try to light engraved glass:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=10876&fullsize=1
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=9415&fullsize=1
Sometimes I light from the side, instead. You want the light to cast good shadows in the engraving, so you try to light it along more or less the same plane as the glass, while trying to keep the background in darkness.
That's how I do it, anyway. This doesn't work for polished engraved glass, in which case a light background is usually necessary. Oh, another little engraved glass photo tip - when there's engraving on both the near and far side of the glass sometimes you can focus on the near and have the far side blurry, which you want in order to separate it visually. To do that you open the aperture wide and take the photo from fairly close (within a couple feet).
Good luck! I look forward to seeing your photos.
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A Moser version of Diana where there's no doubt as to gender:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Incredible-Engraved-Moser-Vase-Diana-the-Huntress_W0QQitemZ190264631512QQihZ009QQcategoryZ29556QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Engraved or pressed? What do you think?
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did they do pressed work like that? didn't harrach did pressed AND engraved glass work. maybe it's a combination of the two.
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At first I thought it might be pressed based on the design and the difficulty of engraving some of the shapes in it, but now I'm thinking I was probably wrong. It's quite an extraordinary piece.
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well I think I've got a few better pics.
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030412.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030412.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030421.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030421.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030426.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030426.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030430.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030430.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030431.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030431.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030432.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030432.jpg)
I think this is better. Opinions? ( I am trying to improve my photography skills. this piece is very hard to do)
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Does the foot have a folded rim, with the fold being "up and over" rather than "down and under"? If so, this might be an Italian item.
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(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030487.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030487.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030488.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030488.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/th_P1030489.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/nov%2029th/?action=view¤t=P1030489.jpg)
I wasn't exactly sure what you meant by that so I took a couple quick pics of the base in black and white.
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Thanks for the extra pics. I was interpreting something as a "ridge" or evidence of a "lip" of some kind above or below the outer edge of the foot. But perhaps it was just an illusion of shadow or similar.
However, it would be useful to see one more photo - of the edge of the foot, directly side on. In other words, to see the profile shape of the outer part of the foot.
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Looks like a Bohemian-style foot to me, if there is such a thing; it was used a lot elsewhere, too, but typical for Bohemia. In some photos it looks folded, but I don't think so. The Italians aren't known for their engraved wares. My guess at the moment is Bohemian, early-mid 20th C.
Your photos are better, the engraving shows up nicely and it's not distorted-looking like it was before. The lighting seems better. The background is a little distracting I find. Nice color, though - maybe with a little ironing?
It is always good to show a profile shot of the whole thing. Often photos taken from the side get distorted a lot, with a sort of fish-eye effect. For example, in the one at the very top of the thread the camera is looking more or less directly across the top, but it's looking down at the base. The easiest way to correct for this is to take a large photo from far away and crop it, or use the zoom.
And don't despair! Taking good photos of engraving is difficult. I've been doing it for years, and still can't get good ones of some pieces.
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I am going to do a website of my collection adn decided that before I Did that I was going to have to figure out how to take good pics. Yeah, we'd already figured the backdrop wasn't going to work. I have another black cloth that's in the dryer now that I am going to try again wtih later. I'll get those other pics tomorrow :)
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So I finally got the passau museum books, in Band 2 there is a goblet that reminds me stylistically of this vase every time I look at it. it's on page 133. from glass engraver josef haberl.
Thoughts?
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Lucky you! I wish I had those books. It would be much appreciated if you could you email me a photo/scan of the page (krsilber at hotmail dot com). Does it say anything about Josef Haberl - who he worked for or with? What's the date of the goblet?
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It will probably be a little while before I can do a scan, I am having upgrade issues with my printer due to win7. the goblet in here is 1845. Which is a bit earlier in date than I'd been thinking but who knows?
This thread has been going on for months now though so a little wait won't hurt :)
My German is very sketchy but it looks like ti says he produced up until 1866 and died one year later. I can't tell if there are any glass works mentioned for sure. it looks like he was located in new Vienna.
it is a great set of books. I need to brush up on my german. If I go to germany i'll be able to talk about glass but I won't be able to order dinner that well ;)