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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 01:16:12 PM

Title: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
Does anyone recognise this little pill/patch box ?  1 1/2 ins across sprung hinged lid with intaglio.
It is very dirty and when i first looked at it i thought maybe czech, then in small letters at the bottom of the box is MADE IN USA.
Maybe an American company for the metal, which is gilded base metal, and an imported intaglio, any ideas?
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Mosquito on November 19, 2008, 01:32:07 PM
I bought one of these a while ago as a gift, the intaglio was by Hoffmann and marked with the butterfly logo. Don't know who made the metal though.
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 19, 2008, 01:32:52 PM
That intaglio looks very Hoffman. Have a look at Pamela's site. Snap! Just seen Stephen's post
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 01:42:43 PM
Thanks Steven and Christine, looked through Pamelas site, but i dont think this is hoffman, no little butterfly, i was also wondering how to clean it, i dont want to ruin the gilding  :-\ it is very mucky!!
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: dirk. on November 19, 2008, 05:50:45 PM
many restorers use cotton wool and their spittle for cleaning purposes - good pH, enzymes...
you can actually even get synthetic spittle in some restorer´s shops. the residues should be
removed with alcohol.
gilded bronze should not be touched without gloves because of the acid constituents in your
sweat or otherwise be wiped off with alcohol afterwards.

regards,
dirk
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 05:57:12 PM
Thank you Dirk, it's a lovely little thing and i would hate to damage it, i will make sure no one is around when i attempt this  ;)
I was just wondering, was/is there any glass artists in America who do/did intaglio work? this is the first one i have seen, and surely if they were imported the would be lot's of them  :-\
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 06:04:08 PM
Just noticed something else, when the box is closed, it is difficult to see the design of the intaglio, but when it is opened you can see the design clearly, but upside down??
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: krsilber on November 19, 2008, 06:22:48 PM
I don't know of any American company that made Hoffman-esque pressed pieces (apart from a few ashtrays).  They're quite common though, and when they're raised for ID on the ebay PGP board they're usually attributed to Hoffman or if a Hoffman pattern can't be found, "unknown Bohemian/Czech"

Did the Hoffman ones always have the butterfly?  And did they call them "intaglio"?  I've wondered that for a long time.

Spittle!  Fake spittle!  I never would have thought of that.  Gold itself is inert to most household chemicals except bleach, it's the rest of the item that you have to be careful of.
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Sue C on November 19, 2008, 06:41:11 PM
All of the Hoffman intaglio's on pamela's site in the cataloques have a butterfly, that was the first place i looked
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 19, 2008, 07:08:03 PM
It is Hoffman, see here (http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Hoffmann-1927.25+B6YmFja1BJRD0yNSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9NTkxJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html). Look at the stoppers of those bottles. Probably a special order
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: dirk. on November 19, 2008, 07:23:36 PM
Kristi, you´re right, the gold itself is inert. but i assumed the box isn´t massive
but either fire gilded or plated. therefor we have to consider the reaction of two
different metals. i´m recalling from school days: wherever two different metals are
brought together they react due to their potential gradient. this effect is facilitated
by acid or any other electrolytic solution.
in short - the more noble metal brings the less to produce oxyde, which makes the
plating flake off. this effect is of course by far more obvious on e.g. chrome plated
objects.
clockmakers wear gloves when they have to touch gilded bronze, too. i was just
offering the most secure handling.
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: krsilber on November 19, 2008, 08:55:15 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to disagree.  It was offered more as an aside than anything, since the piece is obviously of other materials besides gold.

I would imagine that in the case of gold plating (at least with 24K) the concern would be abrasion to the gold and corrosion to areas that weren't completely gold covered.  The corrosion might also creep under the gold.  "wherever two different metals are brought together they react due to their potential gradient. "  What do you mean by "react" here?  As I understand it, in electroplating metal ions are reduced and bond to the substrate by the shared electron.  Oxides (like rust) form when oxygen bonds to the metal, helped by water or some other solute. 

We're probably saying the same thing, just in different ways!
Title: Re: American pill box intaglio lid
Post by: dirk. on November 20, 2008, 05:48:10 AM
Quote
We're probably saying the same thing, just in different ways!


Quote
The corrosion might also creep under the gold.

agreed! that´s what i meant to express...  ::)  ;D