Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: tropdevin on November 25, 2008, 04:21:54 AM
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The few fragments of cane in this weight (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=2&campid=5335820906&toolid=10001&customid=&ext=250331285810&item=250331285810) suggest Vasart to me, but I don't think I have seen a spatter/scramble like this. Any views?
Alan
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Looks messy enough ;)
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Hi Alan
Agreed on the cane fragment especially the orange/yellow/white on the edge at 3 o'clock in the main picture.
Also the pontil has been roughly ground away - typical of Vasart.
I too have not seen this sort of scramble but am doing some research
Best regards
Derek
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Hi Alan
Definitely NOT a Vasart production item !
Derek
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I agree.
Defenatly not Vasart.
For me it is defenatly Murano.
Any change of nearer pictures/fotos.
Regards
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Hi Lothar
I should perhaps have made my reply more clear.
I said it was not a Vasart production item - IE not a regular item that Vasart produced. However many of the canes look Vasart to me. So I suspect it is a trial or a frigger especially as the base is very typical of a Vasart weight.
I have never seen a base like this in a Murano weight nor the greenish complex cane in the main picture at 3 o'clock and 1/2 way between the centre and the edge.
Anyone else have a view???
Best regards
Derek
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I'd go with ***art ;) (I'm not that well versed with Vasart so I tend to get the non-Strath. weights confused ;)
Not Murano by any stretch.
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Definitely not Murano. Murano bases are always very well finished and that black ground looks very Scottish to me. A lot of the colours in that weight look 'Strathearny' to me.
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Yes: I have to learn: not Murano.
I have been too quick with my "defenately".
Regards
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Hah! I forgot to leave a bid ::) Had I bid, and won this one, I would have confirmed its UV reaction.
However, I am reasonably sure that it is from the same era as several others I have, which I put in the 1946-1955 Ysart Brothers (Vasart) period. My web page article on pre-56 Vasart weights has a section on basal features (http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/salv-ybros/base.htm) and shows a few with a similar "button pontil mark" as on the eBay one. Also, although not obvious from my images, some of my YB weights have a similar "rusting" around the pontil mark.
Another point is that I have only seen one other broadly similar "YB scramble" weight (or is it two, or three???), so although this eBay one was a bit on the "untidy" side, it was an interesting example from my viewpoint.
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Hi Kev
Any more thoughts on the cause of the "rusting" as I have also seen this in one example??
Could it be contamination on the grinding wheel??
Best regards
Derek
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Hi Kev
Any more thoughts on the cause of the "rusting" as I have also seen this in one example??
Could it be contamination on the grinding wheel??
Best regards
Derek
More likely it is a tool mark. The "pontil" or "punte mark" on many weights is not a true pontil at all. It is actually a neck. A pontil is created when a bit of hot glass on the end of a punte rod is touched to the base of a piece to form a temporary bond. This allows the piece to be broken of at the other end and worked in in the glory hole as when the glassblower wants to open the neck of a vessel. A neck is created using the jacks to compress the hot glass and form a narrowing in the hot glass. The neck is the point at which the glass is broken off when a punte is attached. In hot worked paperweights the piece is never reversed. The glass is necked down and broken off for placement directly into the annealer without transferring to a punte. If the glass is a bit too cold when the neck is created, or if the worker hold the jacks in place too long or with too much pressure the tool can leave a mark on the glass. This is essentially a small bit if the metal from the tool that is scraped off the tool and remains bonded to the surface of the glass.
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In hot worked paperweights the piece is never reversed.
I would suggest "not usually", rather than never!
It is not uncommon with more complex weights to reverse, sometimes more than once! ;)
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Yes, my understanding now is that the rusting is likely caused during the "necking" or "cutting in" process that Sach has described. There was another example discussed in a message in Dec 2007 (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,18487.msg107064.html#msg107064) - and that amount of rust is quite typical on many of the old "Dump" weights.
My use of the term "pontil mark" is simply to maintain a usage of wording that has become common amongst collectors in most English speaking countries. For correctness, in many (most?) cases of paperweight manufacture, perhaps we ought to speak of "finishing" - which also includes final polishing. "Pontil mark" (or "pontil area" as is sometimes used) is, however, the most widely understood term for the various lumps, bumps, ridges, ground bits, etc. remaining on the central part of a paperweight base.
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Agreed and understood with regard to both comments! I should know better than to use the terms "never" or "always".